Dwarf´s to powerfull ?!? Tactical advise wellcome!

[Mick Moon]

The first thing, i thought as LRB 4,0 came out was:
Why no changes at all for the Dwarfs!!

two main reasons why:

Longbeards have THREE skills right from the start. That means
16 ssp´s and they have FIVE skills and they can gain strenght skills.
That means some kind of killermachine like:
Block,Tackle,Thick Skull, Mighty Blow, Guard
I mean what kind of LINEMAN ist that...

Re-Roll only costs 40,000 k


In a long league run this team becomes so damned powerfull that
it´s just impossible to stop them. Not thinking about what happens
if one or two player gain AG 4 or ST 4..

What u think, do you guys feel the same, or am i talking trash....
What taktic´s work best against Dwarfs.

[TuernRedvenom]

They may have many skills but they are sloooooooooooooooow. Everyone else runs rings around them. They really aren't that good as they seem to be.

[Mick Moon]

wouldn´t say that. Maybe against a rooky you run circles.
With a good positional play you can equalize the movement.

And by the way - Runners MA 6 isn´t that slow. The Blitzers have MA5
that makes MA7 with two gfi´s. Not really slow...

no, the argue slow doesn´t count for me.

The best Dwarfcoach i know says:
A Dwarf is faster than ANY other players lying on the ground...

[TuernRedvenom]

wouldn´t say that. Maybe against a rooky you run circles.
With a good positional play you can equalize the movement.

True, but good positioning + high movement is even better.

And by the way - Runners MA 6 isn´t that slow. The Blitzers have MA5
that makes MA7 with two gfi´s. Not really slow...

Yes it is. GFI is still rolling the dice, it can (and inevitably will) go wrong. Almost all other teams have players (and usually plenty of 'em) that are faster.

The best Dwarfcoach i know says:
A Dwarf is faster than ANY other players lying on the ground...

So? A dwarf lying on the ground is super slow. Point is, as with every other team, you need to get them on the ground and try to keep yourself from going down.

When I was a newbie I also thought that dwarves were a near undefeatable super team. But that's because you focus too much on the blocking aspect of the game. Dwarves are one of the best blocking teams in the game, but they're not very good at moving the ball. Most teams will go down in a blocking war vs dwarves so don't do that. Go for the ball.
On defence: Get kick. Force them to form their cage deep. Limit the their forward movement by screening them and ganging up on them where you have the advantage.
On offence: really, scoring against dwarves is easy. They are too slow to react to rapid flank changes. Keep the ball moving, spread out and they won't be able to keep up. If you cage up against dwarves you are playing right into their game.

I am not saying that dwarves are a weak team, far from it. But if you are the better coach then you should be able to beat them.

[Gorbad]

wouldn´t say that. Maybe against a rooky you run circles.
With a good positional play you can equalize the movement.

And by the way - Runners MA 6 isn´t that slow. The Blitzers have MA5
that makes MA7 with two gfi´s. Not really slow...

no, the argue slow doesn´t count for me.

The best Dwarfcoach i know says:
A Dwarf is faster than ANY other players lying on the ground...

Excepting ofcourse everything with MA7 or more or jump up...

But anyway, a cage playing dwarf's main problem is that he can _never_ afford to drop the ball. As soon as most opponents get the ball from him, they wil score, and there's not a lot he can do about it, as most of his resources are invested in defending his cage.

Basically the dwarf plan is about letting your opponent score only once, anything more than that and he has to abandon his steady gameplan and start doing riskier stuff.

Ofcourse, if you let him get away with slow grinding drives, destroying your team in the process, you get what you ask for.

[Mick Moon]

the main reason why i wrote this topic is the fact,
that dwarfs getting much to good at a LONG league run.
We have a league with about 30 players. One saison is about
25 - 30 games to the finals.

I recognized that most other teams have diffrent problems. Some
have less money to buy re-rolls or players.
Other team develop very bad and things like that.

But Dwarfs have tonns of skills and no or less casualties. So they have a
big treasure and can buy this cheap re-rolls or hire starplayers as much
as they want to. Mighty blows/tackle everywhere you look. Where is the weekness.
Ok they are slow but that´s it.

A rooky starter team is not that hard to beat. That´s what you play
at tournys. But play against a team with Rating 180 or even more..
that´s hell.

[Gorbad]

the main reason why i wrote this topic is the fact,
that dwarfs getting much to good at a LONG league run.
We have a league with about 30 players. One saison is about
25 - 30 games to the finals.

I recognized that most other teams have diffrent problems. Some
have less money to buy re-rolls or players.
Other team develop very bad and things like that.

But Dwarfs have tonns of skills and no or less casualties. So they have a
big treasure and can buy this cheap re-rolls or hire starplayers as much
as they want to. Mighty blows/tackle everywhere you look. Where is the weekness.
Ok they are slow but that´s it.

A rooky starter team is not that hard to beat. That´s what you play
at tournys. But play against a team with Rating 180 or even more..
that´s hell.

Err... our league is perpetual (but pure LRB4.0), with teams that have played well over 80 games.

I like playing against our resident dwarf anklebiter killing machine (Hi Norse!), and even he is now facing the too high TR (291), no income and aging dilemma. Sure he can do more Cas than Wood Elves, but on a whole, it's still rather balanced against the other 280+ teams.

And let me make a final plug for LRB4.0 and aging... it's GREAT! No, really... in our league we have had a few teams over 300 TR, but that is really the limit, and these teams were so crippled they couldn't hang on.

Lucy's Dark Elf team lost a few guys, couldn't replace them and just faded away for a while.
niels' Orc team was awesome, but niggles caught up with him and he was forced to sack all his big stars.
My Wood Elves are now finally back to a full 10 man roster from 7 at their low point (and I get to play with 8 next match woohoo! ) after being on 260 TR.
Norse's dwarves are awful, but mainly due to the AG4 Blodge, Leap, Sidestep runner.... and he has about 6 NI, so it's downhill from here.

The only team that is going strong on 300 is cern's undead, but he's been fairly lucky so far, and won a tournament to sponsor replacing some guys.

So no, dwarves are not overpowered in the long run... actually.. no team is in LRB4.0.

[absent1]

dwarves might be good at high TV, but they don't score a ton of TD's, and the players that need skills the most don't ever get to score, meaning it takes longer to get team value, meaning they will always be fighting up hill

dwarves are hard as heck to play against, but too powerful? no way, skaven, woodelves, undead are all as good or better, orcs too. I've seen dwarves at plenty of tourneys, and in leagues, and they can be beaten just fine. sure they might win lots of games 2-1 or 1-0, but they lose by the same count or worse plenty.

[Longshot]

just put some zombis (for example) with block and Dirty players... it wuold surely solve the overpowered feeling.

but i also believe that Necro and Undead are 'overpowered' cos of that..

[Bizzy]

As for the perpetual thing we have a Chaos Murder player in our league, he has no Niggles, doesn't cheat, has about 4 Claw/RSC guys, and a lot of Claw/Mighty Blow, little guard but doesn't need it. Block on everyone, and is in TR 300 and trying not to go higher, but can't help it. How do you stop a player like that in perpetual?

As for the dwarves our guy is ok not great, more of a beat up on guy because he loses. But if we had a good Dwarf player I agreee he would be hell to beat.

As for necro being over powered, we aren't we have meat shields, but only 2 ST access guys, and 4 AG access men. It is hard to out run elves, and to out bash Orc. We also cant out bash elves, or out run Orc its not easy.

[Mick Moon]

yes , dirty player works pretty good against dwarf an other races
of course too. The problem is that the dwarfs may have dirty player
as well. So after i work with dirty player from my side, the dwarf does
the same to me next turn...and the pain goes on

I try to knock out the runners and slayers first because they are
the ones with av8 - that works prety good too... after that, blitzers are
next so ag3 is rare on the field. Better chances to get the ball quick.

When slayers are out of play i feel much better but thats easier said
than done.
Well that´s how it is maybe...no pain no game - against this little bastards.

This season i play gobos, i have one gobo with ag4. Bought him
a chainsaw. In defence play i bring him as near as possible to the
dwarf ball carier and cage chainsaw-gobo with my boys. Next turn i blitz into the dwarf cage, block on ball carrier with chainsaw, doge out of the cage again and go back into my own cage. that works pretty good too.
It´s a very cool move but dangerous. Only do that when i didn´t use
my apo.

[Flix]

Dwarfs are a nice Team but they are not overpowered at low medium or high TR

Dwarf got one Problem they got no Players with ST 4 instead of other Bashing Teams aso no Big Guy Access

Dwarfs are always a good Team against Dodge Teams but they got big Problems against Teams with less or with out Dodge like Orks

Orks are one best Teams against Dwarfs
Cause they are stronger and faster

Another problem for Dwarfs is in Hard Leagues that if they get some kills thay have big problems to replace their Players cause they are very expensiv. Because a high TR all Teams get very less Money but much ageing rolls

[dendron]

I think dwarfs are not too powerfull. They are the only team apart from Chaos, Flings and Goblins that has only have 6 position players. The next problem of the dwarfs is that they only have 4 AG 3 player. Even the Undead teams have more. I agree that the dwarfs are a good team but I don't think the are overpowered. I saw a dwarf team that was beaten by a skaven team. The GR were where they were needed and the dwarfs had more cas but as the number of the skaven went down the dwarfs were down 3-0, so they had no chance to win this game. Overall against dwarfs the key is speed as it was said before. Play your speed and dwarfs will have to very hard work to keep up with your team.

Dendron

[Craigtw]

So how would somebody recommend that you beat tourney dwarves with chaos or rotters?

I am going to a tourney with rotters and need advice against dwarves. there are at least four, maybe five dwarf teams coming, so chances are excellent that I will be facing off against one.

I lack the speed to effectivelt outrun them and I lack the block skill to effectively beat them down. Suggestions?

[Mick Moon]

@craightw

i can´t give you tactical advice...maybe like i said before,
try knock out the ag3 players. Runners and Slayers only got av8, get em

If i would play rotters, i would try to get as many re-rolls as possible!
Three re-rolls minimum could help in blocking wars.



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