Advices on building a wood elf team

Coach Alex · Post by **Coach Alex** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:24 pm

Hi, I've been playing bloodbowl for less than a year but I've always been playing fast or agile teams (skavens and high elf). I'm currently joining a league with some new players like me and some experienced ones which haven't played since a while (but you know what they say, you never really lose it). The league will apparently have a majority of strenght teams and that's my main concern. I know I'll be able to lead the league early on, but I'll especially need help with staying at the top. In our previous league, we were all newbie players ... and we never thought about making a TR limit so our teams at its end were at 250+ TR ... which means I'm not sure to know how to maintain a team's TR around 200 and keeping it competitive.

Anyway, it didn't take me lot of time to figure which starting roster I was going to take and apparently, I'm not quite original neither. A little search shown me that almost every Wood Elf team starts like that :

1 Wardancer
10 Line-elf
2 Re-roll
8 Fan Factor

I'll obviously go with an apothecary as my first purchase and my second purchase will probably be a re-roll, then a treeman and then positionnal players (well, it will depends of how the league and the winnings go, but that's my basic plan).

I don't think I need clues on how to play Wood Elves, as I'm used to play Skavens (but of course, I'll never spit on some advices, I'm not the finest player around after all) and I'd mostly like to hear your advices on building up and keeping the team at TR 200.

Should I focus on getting a full roster with all my positional player? It shouldn't leave me much space for skills and SPP points.

Or should I try to full my roster with something like : 2 WarDancers, 2 Catchers, a treeman and maybe a thrower? (with obviously, the rest of the team being line-elves)

It's not like if I was completely clueless, but I think some advice would really help me out.

Thanks.

JJB · Post by **JJB** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:41 pm

The following are the most typical pieces of advice:

First purchase: apothecary.

Second purchase: 2nd wardancer

Third purchase: catcher or thrower.

4th purchase: 3rd rr

5th purchase: 2nd catcher, thrower or lineman.

Always get your second WD as soon as you've got your apothecary. Once you've got your two WD, your team becomes fully operational.
The third reroll should really only come once you've got a 'safe' number of players, i.e. 12+ (13 is safe).

A treeman should usually be one of your last purchases. Why? Before it gets block it is just an excuse for you to be turned-over (since big guys cannot use rerolls). And it breaks your speed momentum - together with the fact it's fairly easy to avoid a treeman if you don't have a rest of team with matching pressure-imposing and survival skills in my opinion.

Coach Alex · Post by **Coach Alex** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:49 pm

Second Wardancer, I'll seriously think about it. I'm not sure about getting a thrower that soon though, since all my player can throw (and earn spp points) I think he'll be in my last aquisitions, when it'll be needed to turn the play at my advantage (which shouldn't happen too soon).

I'm still thinking of taking the treeman rather soon ... yes it's easily avoidable, but it's my best bet on the front line against strong teams, he can certainly help my making holes to pass my other players through without wasting much of them (and what would I do with a treeman anyway?).

I also think three reroll are vital for an elven team, since I'm rolling more dices than with any other team ... but you ain't said it wasn't anyway

Tritex · Post by **Tritex** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:20 pm

JJB wrote:The following are the most typical pieces of advice:

First purchase: apothecary.

Second purchase: 2nd wardancer

Third purchase: catcher or thrower.

4th purchase: 3rd rr

5th purchase: 2nd catcher, thrower or lineman.

Always get your second WD as soon as you've got your apothecary. Once you've got your two WD, your team becomes fully operational.
The third reroll should really only come once you've got a 'safe' number of players, i.e. 12+ (13 is safe).

A treeman should usually be one of your last purchases. Why? Before it gets block it is just an excuse for you to be turned-over (since big guys cannot use rerolls). And it breaks your speed momentum - together with the fact it's fairly easy to avoid a treeman if you don't have a rest of team with matching pressure-imposing and survival skills in my opinion.

First purchase: apothecary. agreed - a must with Av7

Second purchase: 2nd wardancer definately "WD" just make the team

Third purchase: catcher or thrower. I always go with catchers first as with their added speed you need to skill them up ASAP otherwise they get reamed later and most other elves make good throwers regardless

4th purchase: 3rd rr Yup

5th purchase: 2nd catcher, thrower or lineman. 2nd catcher for me!!

Treeman - definately last - yes they suck up damager but mostly just sit looking stupid whilst Elves sprint the action all over the place.

Good luck!

Azrahn · Post by **Azrahn** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:36 pm

I'm going to have to agree with the majority of what everyone else has said. Although you did mention the league being mainly strength based. In this case I reckon the treeman could be a bit more useful. Mainly for the fact he stops a fragile elf being crushed on the LoS when on defence. If playing inexperienced coaches he can also tie up several enemy players while they attempt to knock him over, not realising how little it affects your teams ability. Still a tough call on fitting him in around buying the 1st and 2nd catcher but I would definately buy him before the thrower. Hope that's at least reasonably helpful,

Az

Cloggy · Post by **Cloggy** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:13 pm

I love the trees. When playing the cagey type teams they have to find a way around the tree, or commit a lot of players trying to get it off the field. In your typical 4-4 draw elfball game their hitting power can give you some numerical advantage (yes, off course, you make their blocks last......)

In every case they make 1 less block on an AV7 guy per kick-off, so they they earn their money back quite easliy.

Go Trees!

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:48 pm

Hi all,
I'll break with what everyone else has said:

IMO, 10 linemen will fail many rolls per game.
Instead, I'd go with 3 catchers, and feed of the FF of my opponents. After all, winning is worth +10K, and winning will be a lot easier with catchers.

Even more controversial, I suggest putting catchers on the LOS instead of linemen.
Because catchers have dodge, and the same AV as linemen, they are actually less likely to get hurt than linemen (until your opponents get tackle).
Not only that, but if they are knocked down but unhurt, you can stand them up and dodge away with dodge skill.
Linemen, without dodge skill often just stand up, so they end up being knocked over again and again and again.

So, my starting line-up would be:
wardancer
3 catchers
7 linemen
2RR, 2FF

Cheers
Martin

aanemesis · Post by **aanemesis** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:06 pm

Martin/plasmoid, that's really brave. WE catchers are only Str 2 so most times it's 2 block dice against them. Too many chances for them to get Defender Down, I think. You sure it's worth risking your 90k players that way?

I play HE and I still have problems letting my LionW with blodge get in harm's way. But that's my 2 cents anyway.

Gorbad · Post by **Gorbad** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:15 pm

aanemesis wrote:Martin/plasmoid, that's really brave. WE catchers are only Str 2 so most times it's 2 block dice against them. Too many chances for them to get Defender Down, I think. You sure it's worth risking your 90k players that way?

I play HE and I still have problems letting my LionW with blodge get in harm's way. But that's my 2 cents anyway.

How often do you see LoS blocks with less than 2 dice? I'd more worry about the possible 3 dice blocks.

Plasmoid is right on the math, but IMHO wrong on the risk. Yes, the chance of losing 'a' player is lessened with dodge, but the chance of losing a _catcher_ is about 95% higher....

Cloggy · Post by **Cloggy** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:27 pm

2 ff on a woodie team will just not do in a league situation. As the team rises in TR you WILL need a higher ff to genarate cash.

And that is just besides avoiding bad stuff on get the ref, Throw a rock, and pitch invasion rolls.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:54 pm

Hi Gorbad and all,

>How often do you see LoS blocks with less than 2 dice? I'd more worry
>about the possible 3 dice blocks.

And thats just the thing, it is harder to knock down a dodge player with a 3-dice block, then smacking a lineman with a 2-dice block!
And, as mentioned, escaping on your next turn is also easier if you have dodge.
And remember, on a wood elf team, the catchers do not have lower AV than everyone else.

>Plasmoid is right on the math, but IMHO wrong on the risk. Yes, the
>chance of losing 'a' player is lessened with dodge, but the chance of
>losing a _catcher_ is about 95% higher....
Sure, but I'd rather have 3 catchers and risk them, than have no catchers on my starting roster. (As suggested in this thread).

Admittedly, catchers on the LOS is not a good tactic long term.
But I've used it to good effect short term.

And, regarding the low FF: Winning early games will help your FF increase. And increase your winnings. Creating a team that can win early on will help you build your team into a good longer term team.

Cheers
Martin

Gorbad · Post by **Gorbad** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:26 pm

plasmoid wrote:Hi Gorbad and all,

>How often do you see LoS blocks with less than 2 dice? I'd more worry
>about the possible 3 dice blocks.

And thats just the thing, it is harder to knock down a dodge player with a 3-dice block, then smacking a lineman with a 2-dice block!
And, as mentioned, escaping on your next turn is also easier if you have dodge.
And remember, on a wood elf team, the catchers do not have lower AV than everyone else.

I was agreeing with you here, just pointing out to aanemesis that ST2 players on the LoS are not bad because of the 2d blocks.

>Plasmoid is right on the math, but IMHO wrong on the risk. Yes, the
>chance of losing 'a' player is lessened with dodge, but the chance of
>losing a _catcher_ is about 95% higher....
Sure, but I'd rather have 3 catchers and risk them, than have no catchers on my starting roster. (As suggested in this thread).

Admittedly, catchers on the LOS is not a good tactic long term.
But I've used it to good effect short term.

And, regarding the low FF: Winning early games will help your FF increase. And increase your winnings. Creating a team that can win early on will help you build your team into a good longer term team.

Cheers
Martin

I would never start with low FF, but also never without catchers. I'd rather lose a wardancer, or RR. But that requires a certain playing style (verrry careful). Throwers have no place in my starting lineup obviously.

My risky setup: 1RR, 7FF, 1 WD, 3C, 7LM.

Warhammer · Post by **Warhammer** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:30 pm

The key to playing WE is remembering that your linemen will determine if you are a good or great WE team. Everyone knows the capabilities of your catchers and wardancers. While they are tripping over themselves to make sure that those positions are all covered, your lone linemen deep in his end catches a pass and takes it in for the TD!

The first thing to remember is that lineelves can score just as well as other team's position players can. Pass and score TDs with the lineelves your first few games. This will give them valuable skills, which they need to survive.

Once they get skills, don't mass produce linemen (i.e. give them all block, etc.). For their first skills, give some dodge and some block. Dodge goes on the LOS, since early on many of the opposing players will not have block, you are safe from a both down result. The ones that have block become additional blitzers. Your WD has the ball? Use a linemen to open the path to the end zone.

From those first few skills, you need to flesh some out from there. Any linemen doubles should go straight to guard! Your lineelves need all the help they can get. Some other useful skills are shadowing and pass block. Also, you need a DP or two to keep your opponent from fouling all of your players. Give him a player or two to fear!

Your positional players are pretty straight forward, its the lineelves that you need to think about and develop. Also, if you lose a lineelf, replace him with a position player. Don't sweat it if they die, save your apoth for your WDs, catchers, and possibly throwers.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:37 pm

Wel ehm I dont know my post will help you cause I'm not a very experianced bloodbowl player..

Here in the team I started with..

1 WD
2 Throwers
4 Catchers
4 Linemen

0 rerolls
1 ff
1 Apo

Such a team scores
At least the WD and the Catchers do..

I made 12 TD's on 4 games..
Had to use my apo ones

I chose such a team cause it will score good in the beginning.. good for winnings and FF.. I miss the reroll very much.. I hoped to throw a doubble with the dice to take the leader skill..
That didn't happen.. After 3 games I had 150000 on the bank and I bought a reroll.. My team rating went down with 5 points then..

Next time I would change a thrower for a linemen and start with FF 3

My throwers score loads of completions.. Just wit only 4 linemen its hard to give them skills.. One got a MVP so I'm gonna let him complete a pass to give him dodge.. I's hard to let them score TD's cause 3 of 4 linemen got beatenup every time.. And Woodelves score mostly in 2 turns when picking up the ball..

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:43 pm

let me start by saying you have chosen the best roster, imo.

as for where to go from there, with the new take root rules, I'd actually recommend getting a treeman earlier than most have suggested. it will help keep the rest of your players alive as you build.

so i'd do this:
apoth
2nd wd
tree

after that it would depend on how well you've got your line elves going. if you have several with a skill, then you can buy a thrower next. if not, then go with a catcher or two, THEN the thrower. Buying your thrower will take away a main source of spp from your line elves, so while it does help your team to eventually have a thrower, don't do it too early.

Then no matter who gets the mvp as your games progress, they're likely to get a skill. It's better to have a balanced team with a bunch of decent players than to have a bunch of nobodies trying to support a superstar.