Back in the saddle with Dark Elves

TheUnknownZombie · Post by **TheUnknownZombie** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:06 am

Hey, I'm getting back into the game after a loooooong absence (put it this way, the last time I played, there were only twelve teams, and there was no such thing as a LRB)

I used to play block happy teams, and saw my Undead team to an unbeaten season & three successful tournament, but now I'm getting back in the game I decided to go for something different - Dark Elves.

I've read the various articles on the GW website, but found the DE advice not all that useful. I'm planning on making the following team:

2 Blitzers - 100,000 each
1 Witch Elf - 110,000
1 Thrower - 90,000
7 Line Elves - 70,000
2 Re-rolls - 100,000
1 FF - 10,000
Total - 1,000,000

I know there's some flaws there - the low FF is nasty, but I can't really think of any other way to afford what I want. I realise the thrower isn't strictly necessary, but I'll be facing a lot of slow-moving, hard-hitting teams & want to keep my best passing options open.

Does anyone have any advice for opening games? I'm 90% sure I'll be playing against someone with a running team (probably Orcs or Dwarves).

MattShepherd · Post by **MattShepherd** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:46 am

Frankly, I find the Witch Elf to lack bang for the buck.

The low FF is not just nasty -- it's practically suicidal for an Elf team in a bashy league using LRB4.

Put it this way: every point of FF, over time, means more money.

Higher FF = more dice for Gate rolls = higher Gate = more dough.

Lower FF = lower Gate rolls = less dough.

When your LINEMEN cost 70k each and break like crab legs, you're going to need cash, and lots of it. In fact, it's a common Dwarf/Orc strategy to MINIMIZE FF so they can cripple elves in leagues by lowering the overall gate to keep the elves from buying replacement players.

I honestly never found the Witch to be worth all that money. I'd dump her, get 9 FF, and start saving for the ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL apothecary.

SolomonKane · Post by **SolomonKane** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:17 am

The great majority of experienced DE coaches on fumbbl.com will usually tell you the Witch Elf on the starting roster just isn't worth it. Too fragile and too likely to screw things up when your team really needs all its players on the pitch.

You don't really even need Throwers to start a DE team; despite their agility they actually make a decent bashing team early in their careers (assuming your opponents also start at TR 100) and don't really benefit a lot from a player still lacking Sure Hands, even if he has Pass.

Therefore, you might try starting out with Block and let your liners do all the ballhandling:

2 Blitzers - 200k
9 Liners - 630k
2 RRs - 100k
7 FF - 70k

I don't know how long your season is, but you can expect it to be a while before you get another player on the roster. Get an apo first, then start saving for your last two Blitzers - THEN you can pursue a Witch Elf. In the meanwhile, try to score with as many liners as you can.

Skills:
Blitzers - Strip Ball, Tackle, Leap (especially for a +AG), Dodge
Doubles - Guard, MB, Nerves of Steel

Liners - Sure Hands, Kick, Block, Dodge, DP, Tackle
Doubles - Guard, Dauntless (usually VERY useful), Accurate, Leader

sKink · Post by **sKink** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:35 pm

The starting roster suggested by solomon is solid, but I have to disagree with the skill choices.

Blitzers should get dodge as 1st skill so they get more mobile and hard to grind down. That saves you valuable rerolls too. Doubles I would prefer MB and Jump up.

For linemen I would just go for block and take kick as a second skill for first that makes so far. Without Witch Elves and with only 2 blitzers the team is not going to benefit that much from a good kick. I would also save sure hands for a passer in case you are going to buy him. Leader and accurate are waste on linemen. Just go guard, you are going to need it much more.

Future purchases would be Apo, 12th player and then start loading up the positionals. I think I'd buy one WE before 3rd blitzer but it depends on your playing style and opposing teams. Against lots of bash I'd take the blitzers first.

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:01 pm

I would suggest Solomon's starting lineup, then:

1) Apoth
2) 3rd and 4th Blitzers
3) Reroll
4) The two Witches
5) Reroll
6) Thrower
7) Reroll

Note the addition of rerolls. I find that with only two RR, I tend to play very conservatively so that I can keep my rerolls for the important plays. Once you get more rerolls, you can now try more dodges and GFIs with less worry of missing and ending-up in a bad position.

As for skills (Not necessarily in order):

Blitzers: Dodge first, then Strip Ball, Tackle, Sidestep
Doubles: MB, Dauntless (only one or two), Jump Up

LineElves: Block, Dodge, Dirty Player (a couple), Kick (one)
Doubles: Guard, Dauntless, MB

Witches: Block (a must), SideStep, Strip Ball, Tackle
Doubles: MB, Leap

Thrower: Accurate, Sure Hands, block, dodge
Doubles: Strong Arm, NoS

sKink · Post by **sKink** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:39 pm

Cramy wrote:
Thrower: Accurate, Sure Hands, block, dodge
Doubles: Strong Arm, NoS

Sure Hands before Accurate imo. Saves lots of rerolls. You'll be throwing mostly quick and short passes anyways.

Agree that Blitzers would be ideal 2nd signings, but I would still buy a lineman after apo in case I didn't have enough cash to afford a blitzer. With 11 players you will get outnumbered too easily, unless playing against AV7 teams.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:36 am

let me add my weight to those backing solomon's starting roster. let me also second the opinion that witch elves do not belong on starting league teams: st3, frenzy and no block are a dangerous mix, especially when also being av7. witch elves are great players but they need a decent team around them for support.

also, you DEFINITELY don't need to start with a thrower. every player on your teamis a potential thrower and catcher. you want to use that to your advantage to build up a solid team. have your line elves take turns throwing those quick passes to get 1 spp each, then whoever gets the mvp will get a skill. then you have a solid team instead of a few good players surrounded by schmoes.

Moose Cloud · Post by **Moose Cloud** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:37 am

Thing is with not taking a witch elf that your not playing DEs... The starting team suggested can be done with high elves as well... Also with the list of things to buy given your team won't become distinctly DE for 10+ games...

Witch elves are hit or miss but once you get them a couple of skills they can be alright. Frenzy is a nice thing t have in your starting line up but jump up is essential. It makes them so much faster than expected.

Mick Moon · Post by **Mick Moon** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:57 pm

well, i would not start without a Apo, cause if a Blitzer or Witch
dies in first game your team is in big trouble because of less money you earn and that is because of the low FF.

ItÂ´s realy hard with DE, i can tell you.
My setup in a league is:

4 Blitzer
1 Thrower
6 LM
1 Apo
4 FF
No re-roll ..and that sucks but i canÂ´t change it.

All in all there is no real good set up with DEÂ´s. ThereÂ´s allways a
compromise. And i decided to go without Re-rolls. I did this with skaven
a few years ago and it worked well. Buying Re-rolls in League progress
helps to keep your Teamrating low.

Try to get sure hands on thrower FAST!
Try to buy one re-roll FAST!
Than buy first Witch and get Block FAST!

good luck no matter what you decide...youÂ´ll need it.
...Apo, Apo , Apo , Apo...

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:44 pm

Moose Cloud wrote:Thing is with not taking a witch elf that your not playing DEs... The starting team suggested can be done with high elves as well... Also with the list of things to buy given your team won't become distinctly DE for 10+ games...

We're talking about a league team, you have time and money to build up. Get your "infrastructure" in place, then personalize with the fancy position players.

Moose Cloud wrote:Witch elves are hit or miss but once you get them a couple of skills they can be alright. Frenzy is a nice thing t have in your starting line up but jump up is essential. It makes them so much faster than expected.

Once you get them block they are all right. Problem is when you only have 11 and they DON'T have block, they're NOT all right. That's why they need a few other skilled people around them. Besides, it's not too tough to get a witch elf 2td (and therefore 1 skill) in one game if you make an effort at it, or two. So buying her late is not a huge problem like it would be for, say, a mummy, who gets spp very slowly.

Finally, jump up IS a great skill, but with only 7AV, and a huge target on your chest that's screaming "FOUL ME!!" you may not get to use it all that often.

I love witch elves, I really do...they are the 3rd best players in BB imo (behind wardancers and gutter runners). But I still don't recommend starting with any on a TR100 de league team.

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:23 pm

I agree with wesleytj. Witch Elves are amazing players, but not on a starting lineup. And if you are playing in a league, you will get your witches eventually. And by the time you get them, your lineElves should have skills and be able to support her. Get a few quick TDs with your newly aquired Witch and give her block, and then you have a good well rounded team.

Remember that with elves, it is crucial that your lineElves get skilled-up and actively participate in plays. They are not all line fodder (although you will need some for that). If you have good LineElves you will be much better off. They can make or break a team more so than with other teams imo.

bigallium · Post by **bigallium** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:51 pm

as a general rule of thumb for me, your blitzers should outnumber your witches 2 to 1. So I would make them the 1st player I bought in a line up that starts with 2 blitzers as detailed above.

Not only do they add another dimension to the team but they are the FLAVOUR of a dark elf team, nasty nasty players who throw themselves into blocks and then dance away.

Flavour for me is more important than sucess...but that just me.

(combining the two is the holy grail btw)

Markus · Post by **Markus** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:19 am

In a long term league i'd go for 1 Blitzer, 10 linos, FF 9, 2 RR and 10 k cash. First buy should be apo (very likely after 1st match) then 2nd Blitzer, Witch, RR, Blitzer, Blitzer, Witch, RR..... In a shorter league (5 or less games), i'd go with your starting lineup but swap 1 rr for the apo.

besters · Post by **besters** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:07 am

Having taken a Dark Elf team to a tournament I can confirm that Witch Elves don't survive. It was recommended to me that the following was a good tournament team:

4 Blitzer's
7 Linemen
2 Re-Roll's
1 Fan Factor

It certainly can work for "one-off" games, but whether you would go for less blitzer's and a higher fan factor for a league, I guess it depends on the format?

Besters

Jeremiah Kool · Post by **Jeremiah Kool** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:33 pm

I would also get the Blitzers first and then the Witches.

BTW, if your Blitzers are a little developed (= Dodge and more) would you consider giving one of them Catch? I had the extreme luck to get two Blitzers with MA8 and Dodge. One of them has also Sidestep. The third one has Guard and the fourth one has Dodge / Leap / AG5. One Witch has Mighty Blow and the other one Block / MA8.