Advices for defeating Skavens with Wood elves

[Coach Alex]

I'm currently playing the ending tournament of the league. My only concern now is the final against the ... no it isn't Chaos Dwarves any more. I'll be playing Skavens instead. The team is less developped and is missing a GR for the final. I defeated 'em 5-3 in the season as they have never been able to do anything against my wardancers. I think the other coach is better than I, but my team is definitely stronger and I'm quite used playing it. Anyway, here it is :

#1 : Line-elf with kick, block AV6
#2 : Line-elf with Block, + AG, Guard, Leap
#3 : Line-elf with Block, Dodge
#4 : Line-elf with Block, Dodge
#5 : Line-elf with Block, Dodge
#6 : Line-elf with Dodge, Guard, Block
#7 : Rookie line-elf
#8 : Line-elf with Dirty Player, Guard (twice MVP and double ... dammit
#9 : Catcher with Block, Sidestep
#10 : Catcher with Block, Shadowing
#11 : Catcher with Block, AV6
#12 : Catcher with Block, MA 10
#13 : Thrower with a single pass (in two games ... wow)
#14 : Wardancer with Leader (special skill), Stripball (special free skill), Sidestep, +1 AG, +1 MA
#15 : Wardancer with +1 AG, Sidestep, Tackle
#16 : Treeman without any SPP (never played as a result of a handicap event)

Apothecary
3 Re-rolls (+ leader)
0k in bank
TR 220+
Season : 10-5-2

Now that the original point of the topic has changed (I thought I'd play against Chaos Dwarves in the final, but they got pretty unlucky against the skavens and lost 1-2), I don't need advices as much as I previously did. I know my team pretty well and I've played a lot with the Skavens too, so I know pretty much how to handle them. Anyway, suggestions and advices are always appreciated as I'm still a rookie coach (second league only).

(btw, no wizard nor star player allowed in the league)

[updated after a 4-0 win against the dwarven team]
[updated after a 2-1 win against the khemri team]

[SolomonKane]

Well, the offensive play should be the same as always - score quickly and often, if possible. First turn you should flood his half with at least four eligible catchers in scoring position. Since every player is a potential catcher, this shouldn't be too hard. The idea here is to give him more targets than his Bulls can cover. Granted, your opponent will have some CDs hang back to try to tie up catchers, too, but that's where your mobility comes in, dodging to assist the would-be scorer in a blitz that frees him into the end zone.

Largely, when you're asking for advice here, you're talking about defense because let's face it, if you score the first TD of the game he'll try to grind you out the last 14 turns of the match.

Defensively it's the same as usual for most elf teams: try to work around his flanks, tempt him into caging down the middle. This time instead of trying to lay TZs on everybody you probably want to dodge away your players and force him to blitz you down in order to make a TD run with a Bull. The idea here is, if he's trying to score quickly, you string him out enough that your leaping players can go pop the ball free.

If he insists on caging (which he SHOULD do, to try to CAS out your team), you need to get a couple players around the back of the cage and force his corners to either hit or dodge away. The front of the cage should be surrounded by players one TZ away. If you can get players two deep in front of the cage, even better. Do this either by dodging away, or using assists on the front corners of the cage (you should always be looking for ways to attack the corners of the cage) to push them away WITHOUT following up. The cage can't easily move forward and just might be tempted to go sideways or even waste a turn trying to push off your flanker types. Any movement sideways is a victory for you, since your players are much more able to keep up with the flow on the pitch - your team is all about mobility.

ok, all of the above you probably know up to this point. The real trick, obviously, is dealing with his Bulls and not allowing them to disrupt your scores or score quick TDs to save the match for him. I can't really recommend anything more specific than what I already did; if a Bull breaks free you might be ahead to gang up on it and foul the living daylights out of it.

Good luck.

[Manik]

All valid what Solomon wrote.

On Defense, you can use kick well in kicking it deep, so he might have to take a risk to get it into his cage. If he doesn't reach the cage or even produces a turnover, well, here come your WE, they are made to swarm the backfield of anybody and score from there.
If you can, give your WD or maybe a catcher Shadowing. However fast his Bulls will be, their MV6 will mean your on his tail forever and break tackle doesn't help him very far. As Blodgers, he is gonna have a hard time taking you down if you stay clear of his Tacklers (if you can?). This works great in combination with Sidestep.

[TuernRedvenom]

I'll play against Dwarves in quarter final but the team isn't developped enough to be a real problem. In semi-finals I'll probably play against Khemri which won't be a big deal neither.

This is blood bowl kid, anything can happen!

[Duke Jan]

If he does cage, try tempting him into blocking a sidestepper, preferably using a non-tackler positioned next to the cage and then side-step into it. It is risky, but so is leaping. At least when you go down in his turn you can blitz the ball carrier without making any rolls to get to him. Better not to do it after using your apo though.

Too bad no wizards are allowed because a fireball is the best remedy for cages.

[Coach Alex]

Thanks for the hints, it was pretty much what I had in mind, but it's a new point of view (giving shadowing to my catchers would be very interesting, I forgot about that)

I'll play against Dwarves in quarter final but the team isn't developped enough to be a real problem. In semi-finals I'll probably play against Khemri which won't be a big deal neither.

This is blood bowl kid, anything can happen!

Yeah it's true, but playing a fast team at TR 200+ against slow teams with TR 150 helps a lot. Anyway, you're right, being overconfident is probably the best way to get Nuffle to curse you :?

[Duke Jan]

Anyway, you're right, being overconfident is probably the best way to get Nuffle to curse you :?

Ask not how Nuffle can curse you but how you can curse Nuffle

[Coach Alex]

Poor dwarves, they conceided the game after the first half ... I was leading 4-0 without any injuries and I killed one of their runner. I never rolled such good dices ...

[Ziggi Abschuss]

Poor dwarves, they conceided the game after the first half ... I was leading 4-0 without any injuries and I killed one of their runner. I never rolled such good dices ...

So much for playing tag with WElfs.

I agree with pretty much all the advice that has been given above, but I would like to add something. Try to limit his lateral movement as well. That will make the 2 man deep defence 1 square away easier to maintain. If you can stear him into one of the wide zones and then limit him to that. Then you should be fine even if you start getting a bit short on men.

Ziggi

[Axtklinge]

Poor dwarves, they conceided the game after the first half ... I was leading 4-0 without any injuries and I killed one of their runner. I never rolled such good dices ...

Poor guy...thats quite heavy to put up with, just for the first half!
Did you get to upgrade any player?
Is still Khemri the next on the list?

Cheers
Axt

[Coach Alex]

I got lucky on my MVP roll (well, for one of the rolls) and got my dodge+guard line-elf another skill, which will be block. I also managed to make a Catcher score three touchdowns which granted him the Shadowing skill. I also bought a treeman to give my players a break on the LoS. (I updated my first post anyway)

Yes I'll be playing against Khemri next. The team has somehow a lower TR then I and they don't have much skills on their scariest players (aka mummies). I never won nor lost against them, always tied but that's mainly because I was too scared of 'em. I think that in fact, for the next game he should be scared instead since I got three AG5 leaper, some guard and a lot of block 'n dodge (he has 2 or 3 tackle on his team).

For the final, it'll be against either the Chaos Dwarves team I'm a little worried about or against the Skaven team that finished first this season, just before me (Skavens ended up 41.7 and I was at 41 ... don't ask about how we calculate it ). Both team can be threatening, but I'm mainly worried about the Chaos Dwarves since 6 out of their 11 players that will be on the field have Tackle (and may be a Chaos Cow too).

Edit : ouch ... I just learned that the Khemri coach has a ST5 (wtf???) Thro-ra ... which will complicate a lot any attempt to retrieve the ball ... dammit. On second thought it might be a little harder then I thought (which is good IMO

[Axtklinge]

That Thro-ra must have been practicing with the mummys...

Let us know how the game goes!

[Coach Alex]

Well, I managed to win against the Khemris 2-1, and it was veeeery close. That ST5 Thro-ra was the team himself ...

The first half was a nightmare, I did my best to slow him down but he passed the armor on every single block and sent most of my team to the knockout box (one Serious Injury and a Kill on which I used my apothecary). After four turns there was only six remaining players on my team and since my only chance to pick the ball was to get a good kick and take it before his thro-ra could (and failed, since the kick went close to him), I decided to let him go and blitz the skellies he left behind (injuried three but they all regenerated dammit). I managed to get some of my players back and still had 13 ready to play.

The second half started as bad with perfect defense for him which screwed my strategy. Somehow it ended up helping me as it took me five turns instead of the usual two to score (with a few knockout and his other thro-ra injuried for the rest of the game). I got unlucky on the second kickoff event and picked up a Injury time which gave him another turn. Except for that, I started to play a little smarter and took more risks (contradiction ? not when it's the last game for your team), I used my leapers and guards a lot and it worked well as he never passed the LoS.

Overtime, I have most of my players, but I know I'll be screwed if he wins the coin toss ... which has been the case. However, I managed to do a great kick and got a perfect defense, which allowed me to put my sidestepping catcher and wardancer right next to the ball on the left side of the field. He stunned my wardancer but my catcher stood still, which was a good reason enough for his ST5 (but AG2) Thro-ra to wait another turn instead of risking a GFI and a -1 pick up attempt. It was my chance, I pushed as much players off the ball as I could and leaped my other wardancer on the ball, he succeeded on his two GFI, his 3+ pick, his 3+ pass and my catcher just ran out of range while my last one also ran out of blitzing range in his backfield he left almost uncovered. I scored a TD the next turn, without any injuries and since it was on his drive, the overtime ended.

I got my last catcher +1 MA and my kicker block (stupid MVP ... twice on him ... it also happened to my dirty player who even got a double roll dammit . The good thing is that he didn't injury any of my players ... and oddly he only made one Cas while I had four.

Now I'm ready for the final against the leading team of the league, the skavens.

[wesleytj]

dude you've got 2 ag5 wardancers. why are you asking us for advice at all?!?!

[Coach Alex]

Because of ST 5 Thro-ra monster and 2 ST5 Bull Centaurs lucky bastards. These are stronger than 2 AG5 WD IMO.