Lizardman Team

Gremdel · Post by **Gremdel** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:53 am

All right, I've worked out the real life issues to my satisfaction here:
viewtopic.php?t=18422

So now time to get down to team development. I missed the opening meeting but somehow they came up with this odd team advancement structure:

You get one pt per game and can spend or save it.
1 pt = One Regular Skill
2 pts = One Doubles Skill or Trait
3 pts = One Movement Increase
4 pts = One Agility Increase
5 pts = One Strength Increase
+1 pt per Increase already taken on that Player (Eg. +2 if he already has taken 2 Advancements)

The league will be 8-10 regular season games, then 2-3 playoff games. So... here's what I'm thinking.

5 Sauri 400 k
6 Skinks 360 k
3 RR 180 k
6 FF 60 k

So how do I spend my points after that? My plan right now:
1) Saurus Block
2) Saurus Block
3) Skink Catch
4) Saurus Block
5) Saurus (Krox?) Block
6) Skink Catch

After that, we'll see. What do you think?

Moose Cloud · Post by **Moose Cloud** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:15 am

Interesting idea on the advancement thingy. It's not something I would use but it does look interesting.

Perhaps you would be better keeping the points saved(thus reducing your team rating) untill the play-offs where you will be able to see what your team needs overall(I.E wouldn't it be great having an Ag4 skink?) Admitedly I would only try ths if you are one of the best players in your league. Otherwise your team will get killed.

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:21 am

I'd suggest using all points for regular skills for your saurii. First, build a BT, Block, Tackle one. Then go on and give the rest Block. After that, add on Guard and more BT, and perhaps a kicker.

SolomonKane · Post by **SolomonKane** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:06 pm

I probably wouldn't be in any hurry to burn those points. I'd save for a couple games and see what kinds of skill rolls you get early on. You might want to spend two points for a Sure Hands skink. Frenzy or Stand Firm would be worth considering for the Saurii.

I think BT is great but it's somewhat overrated. Stand Firm is as good or better, because it allows you to move through a crowd (granted, you have to roll a 6, but it's a free dodge attempt). I play a Lizzie team on FUMBBL, and frankly, not a whole lot of my opponents have subscribed to the theory of tying up Saurii with linemen. Too many of them worry my Saurii will pound their players into the turf. This is what I like for Saurii skills (and they're different from my FUMBBL team, but what I wish I would have taken in retrospect):

LOS Saurii: Block, Guard, Tackle and Stand Firm on doubles.
Other Saurii: Block, Break Tackle, Guard and Frenzy on the first double, Stand Firm on the rest. Kick first skill for one of them.

Skinks: Two with Catch and Sure Feet, two with Diving Tackle and Sidestep, and hopefully you can get Sure Hands with an early double. I would seriously consider getting the Catch first, it helps immensely when trying to make a long scoring run.

sKink · Post by **sKink** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:10 pm

Don't waste those valuable skills on skinks, they die way too easily. Just skill up the sauri. Afterall, the biggest problem with lizzies is getting sauri enough spp and in your setting that weakness is eliminated. Get those block, bt / block, guard monstrosities.

Geoff Watson · Post by **Geoff Watson** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:13 am

I'd use the points to give the Sauruses Block for the first 6 games(unless they skill up by themselves), then give the Krox (if you've got one by then) Block in the 8th game.

The Skinks will skill up relatively fast anyway, with TDs.

Geoff.

Gremdel · Post by **Gremdel** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:01 am

Thanks for the input so far. However, let me clear up a few things. First, there will be no skill rolls. SPP won't translate into skills. 1 pt per game is what you get. I assume they decided on this method because it would keep the teams "balanced". Personally, I think it takes some of the fun out of the game where you try to develop certain players by using them to score TDs etc. Oh well.

Second, we will keep track of SPPs to determine a TR. So, while are teams will be pretty evenly matched skill wise (disregarding player death/niggle), our TR might be wildly divergent when it comes time to roll on the Handicap table. So, I guess the TR will be more of a reflection on my coaching skills that on my team. Meh, but I'm not going to raise a stink about it, it's still Blood Bowl!

sKink, I like your point about Skinks dieing to easily to risk wasting "skill points" on. But I think you thought that I could get them skills the old fashion way. I'd really like to have a Skink with Catch and another with Sure hands. With that AG at only 3, that ball can be awfully slippery sometimes.

EDIT: hmmm... I'm starting to think
1) Block
2) Block
3) Block
4) Block
5) Catch
6) save
7) Sure Hands.

SolomonKane · Post by **SolomonKane** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:20 pm

I'd probably get Sure Hands first. Lizards tend to burn a lot of RRs on ballhandling. Your ST4 players should be able to get 2dbs in their favor the great majority of the time, so Block isn't so overwhelmingly important, given your limited chances to build skills.

Catch is definitely a good idea, too, and you might even be better off with 2 of them. I realize this means you're going to be without Block for quite some time, but I can't stress enough how often you'll burn RRs handling the ball.

Also, not knowing if you've played lizards before or not, I'd advise you not to try to bash everybody into submission with your strength. Mainly I say this because lacking Block and a lot of skills that help you break armor/cause injuries, keeping your blocks limited to only those you absolutely need to move the ball is a good idea (of course, once everything important has been done, by all means try to hurt a few people with extra blocks). Try to use formations on offense that let you build a cage first turn. You're fast enough that barring a fumbled ball, you SHOULD be able to build it right away if you don't place all your Saurii on the center line.

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:43 pm

If you make 9 blocks with each saurii every match, you'll get a TO once. Block avoids 75% of those, and as a bonus gives more knockdowns as well as less knockdowns on the saurii.

You'll pick up the ball say 3 times every match, and miss one of those. Sure Hands saves 2/3 of those misses.

That makes things pretty even, before you factor in two big factors:
a) you get two Block skills for a Sure Hands skill
b) there's a big risk you waste two points by getting your ballcarrier killed

The same can be argued against taking the catch skill, which is even worse. These progression rules favours lizards a lot because you can ignore skilling up the fragile skinks.

sKink · Post by **sKink** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:51 pm

Totally agreed with MickeX. Can you buy more players btw? Then getting a kroxi and saving points to give him block wouldn't be a bad idea.

SolomonKane · Post by **SolomonKane** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:52 pm

Well, I tend to disagree with you, MickeX, simply because in my experience I've had the greatest trouble with my lizards in handling the ball, not throwing blocks. However, perhaps your own experience has told you otherwise, so I'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Gremdel · Post by **Gremdel** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:36 am

MickeX wrote:If you make 9 blocks with each saurii every match, you'll get a TO once. Block avoids 75% of those, and as a bonus gives more knockdowns as well as less knockdowns on the saurii.

Ooo... I gotta do that math on that.

Code: Select all

Dice One    Dice Two           Result
-> x 2        ->               Push x 2
              ->               Push x 2
              *                Good x 2
              !                Good x 2
              *X               Push x 2
               X               Push x 2

->             Ditto

*               N/A            Good x 6

!               N/A            Good x 6

*X               ->            Push
                 ->            Push
                 *             Good
                 !             Good
                 *X            TO!
                 X             TO!

X                ->            Push
                 ->            Push
                 *             Good
                 !             Good
                 *X            TO!
                 X             TO

So thats a good result in 20/36, a Push in 12/36, and a TO in 4/36. Or like Mike said, 1 in 9 times will result in a TO. If I get Block for a lot of my Sauruses, that makes it 1 in 36 times and the good results get even better.

You'll pick up the ball say 3 times every match, and miss one of those. Sure Hands saves 2/3 of those misses.

That makes things pretty even, before you factor in two big factors:
a) you get two Block skills for a Sure Hands skill
b) there's a big risk you waste two points by getting your ballcarrier killed

The same can be argued against taking the catch skill, which is even worse. These progression rules favours lizards a lot because you can ignore skilling up the fragile skinks.

[/code]

Interesting stuff. I am starting to lean towards spending six games on gettting block for my big lizzies. I can buy just like a normal league. I played lizards pretty much exclusively when I played PBEM. My strategy was pretty simple, pick up the ball, hand it off to another skink who would run it up to the LOS, form a cage. Send some runners down the sides. Turn 2 with the ball: Try to get the ball to one of the guys on the side or try to form a half cage along the side. Turn 3: Score.

While bashing the guys into submission was always tempting, the lizards really aren't made for that I quickly discovered. There just aren't enough big guys and unless you're willing to send a couple Skinks off with fouls, it's hard to get through the armor.

The Florist · Post by **The Florist** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:35 pm

No skill rolls, just set advances per match?
Play orcs. Skilling up your black orcs easily, while playing one of the teams that don't have to worry much about player turnover = walk in the park.
Get a DP early and brek the players your leaguemates put advances on.
You don't have to worry about fouling not giving SPPs either.

Mootaz · Post by **Mootaz** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:05 pm

I'd also say in that league will Orcs rock. I'd not play any agility team in that league as their biggest advantage, being able to skill up players easily, is pretty much negated.

The Florist · Post by **The Florist** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:26 pm

All the downside of playing agility, none of the upside. I pity the wood elf coach.