Pro Elves for the Dungeonbowl

[Mootaz]

Why not give the thrower kick? He's the player least likely to take a beating on either offense or defense, and accurate isn't a priority in a tourney, IMO.

We are talking Pro elves right?

Move 6 thrower and NOS catchers.

Taking accurate allows you to flood the field with catchers at various positions and depths. While your thrower hangs deeper back out of blitz range. It is no small feat to be able to throw quick passes (+1 mod) across 6 squares, or shorts (+0 mod) to 10.

For example you could stand next to your own endzone and still throw an un modified pass (short) to a catcher who wouldn't have to GFI to score....Without GFI with the thrower either...

But, if that isn't your style.....
Sure hands is good so you start the drive off right without taking a team re-roll for the pick up. And it greatly improves you odds on def when picking up in a tz. Leader would also be interesting to take.

Thing is, I don't know what my style with them is. I haven't played enough games with them, but I decided to take Pro Elves because they are a passing team and I want a change from my running plays. So probably I should concentrate on their passing game.
But Leader? We're not talking about Vault rules...

[#crunch]

Why not give the thrower kick? He's the player least likely to take a beating on either offense or defense, and accurate isn't a priority in a tourney, IMO.

We are talking Pro elves right?

Move 6 thrower and NOS catchers.

Taking accurate allows you to flood the field with catchers at various positions and depths. While your thrower hangs deeper back out of blitz range. It is no small feat to be able to throw quick passes (+1 mod) across 6 squares, or shorts (+0 mod) to 10.

For example you could stand next to your own endzone and still throw an un modified pass (short) to a catcher who wouldn't have to GFI to score....Without GFI with the thrower either...

But, if that isn't your style.....
Sure hands is good so you start the drive off right without taking a team re-roll for the pick up. And it greatly improves you odds on def when picking up in a tz. Leader would also be interesting to take.

Yeah, right, but...

I'm playing PEs in a league, and I'm very grateful for my strong arm thrower, using exactly the tactic you described. In a tournament, however, I would not spend a skill on accurate.

Think about it:
Your thrower will pass only on offense, which shouldn't be more often than once or twice in a game, unless you're playing WEs. PEs are such a great offensive team that with 3 catchers, you should be able to make do with quick and short passes.

I order to win games, you need to score on defense, which is greatly facilitated by kick. For reasons explained above (def setup), you can't give kick to a lineman. Catchers are a huge target already. Later in the game, when the linemen will have suffered some attrition, you may want to play a blitzer on a wing (hopefully not on the line!), which moves him out of the legal kick zone. The thrower is the only remaining player to give the skill to.

#crunch

[Mootaz]

Whoever said Pro Elves have a problem defending is definitely right. In my test games they certainly struggled. The best tactic seems to be to get the sidestepper next to the ballcarrier, but in order for this to work they need to stay on their feet, so this is my next idea for skills

1. Kick on Thrower
2. Dodge on Blitzer
3. Dodge on Blitzer
4. Dodge on Catcher
5. Dodge on Catcher

Comments?

[Manik]

Yep, like your skill choices. Those Blitzer really gonna freak out your opponents at some point. But don't expect it to work too often, as a good coach will find ways to deny you sidestep squares that make sense for your Blitzer.
With your defensive setup, keep in mind that you will have kick after the first game. You could move your Catchers 1 square closer to the LOS, then kick deep and rush after the ballcarrier (or the ball on a failed pickup , who will hardly be in a cage if he didn't take plenty of risks. And you are in even better position in case of a blitz

[Cloggy]

Whoever said Pro Elves have a problem defending is definitely right. In my test games they certainly struggled. The best tactic seems to be to get the sidestepper next to the ballcarrier, but in order for this to work they need to stay on their feet, so this is my next idea for skills

1. Kick on Thrower
2. Dodge on Blitzer
3. Dodge on Blitzer
4. Dodge on Catcher
5. Dodge on Catcher

Comments?

Well, this makes the team stand up to punishment a bit better, but seems quite an anti-basher choice. In a tourney I'd say get tackle on at least 1 blitzer to be able to deal with amazons/woodies/rats/ghouls/human catchers, since they will most likely have blodge as well.

[Mootaz]

Whoever said Pro Elves have a problem defending is definitely right. In my test games they certainly struggled. The best tactic seems to be to get the sidestepper next to the ballcarrier, but in order for this to work they need to stay on their feet, so this is my next idea for skills

1. Kick on Thrower
2. Dodge on Blitzer
3. Dodge on Blitzer
4. Dodge on Catcher
5. Dodge on Catcher

Comments?

Well, this makes the team stand up to punishment a bit better, but seems quite an anti-basher choice. In a tourney I'd say get tackle on at least 1 blitzer to be able to deal with amazons/woodies/rats/ghouls/human catchers, since they will most likely have blodge as well.

So you'd say Tackle on the 2nd Blitzer?

[Mad Jackal]

Why would you not put Block on the catchers?

On Defense against blocking is Equal to or better than dodge (not removed by tackle).
On offense block dice it is clearly better to have block than dodge.

And I'd surely trade a dodge re-roll (2+ dodge normal anyway) for the ability to Blitzer with an 8 moving st 3 piece.
-At least on 1....

If the issue is to beef up defense I say add more players able to blitz the ball carrier.....


What is wrong with that theory ?

[SolomonKane]

That's true, Mad Jackal, and you're right. However, with elves, the point of using Dodge instead of Block is simply a matter of survival.

On offense, Dodge for the Catchers has its obvious use: to escape from TZs on the way to an open square in the end zone.

On defense, however, it's simply a matter of survival: having a lot of Block on your elves will encourage you to hit more often than is probably wise. With AV 7 elves, you're really asking for it. With Dodge, you have a much better chance of concentrating your elves where they need to be, thereby lessening (somewhat) the need for Block when attacking the ball carrier - ideally, the ball carrier will be caught in the open by the fast Pro players, who dodged past most of the protection.

Of course, this is a lot easier said than done in the course of most games, but this is why Dodge has its uses as opposed to Block, in this case with AV 7 elves. Is Dodge really better than Block? A matter of taste, I would say. I just felt the need to defend the Dodge skill. Devil's advocate.

[Cloggy]

Whoever said Pro Elves have a problem defending is definitely right. In my test games they certainly struggled. The best tactic seems to be to get the sidestepper next to the ballcarrier, but in order for this to work they need to stay on their feet, so this is my next idea for skills

1. Kick on Thrower
2. Dodge on Blitzer
3. Dodge on Blitzer
4. Dodge on Catcher
5. Dodge on Catcher

Comments?

Well, this makes the team stand up to punishment a bit better, but seems quite an anti-basher choice. In a tourney I'd say get tackle on at least 1 blitzer to be able to deal with amazons/woodies/rats/ghouls/human catchers, since they will most likely have blodge as well.

So you'd say Tackle on the 2nd Blitzer?

I would get tackle on a blitzer as the second skill, after kick, and just hope I don't face woodies first game.

[Mootaz]

Why would you not put Block on the catchers?

On Defense against blocking is Equal to or better than dodge (not removed by tackle).
On offense block dice it is clearly better to have block than dodge.

And I'd surely trade a dodge re-roll (2+ dodge normal anyway) for the ability to Blitzer with an 8 moving st 3 piece.
-At least on 1....

If the issue is to beef up defense I say add more players able to blitz the ball carrier.....


What is wrong with that theory ?

SolomonKane pretty much summed my ideas up. Dodge is needed for the offensive plays when my catchers are surrounded. Sure, they can always catch the ball, but they also have to get it to the endzone. And on defense, Dodge is a very valuable skill. If you are hit by players without block, it is superior to block, as the opponent will not take "both down" anyway. And if he does, it's your turn. And to really use my MV 8 I have to be able to get where I want them to go and very often this includes 3+ dodges. I need dodge to reliably do that. RR are sparse.

[Mootaz]

Well, this makes the team stand up to punishment a bit better, but seems quite an anti-basher choice. In a tourney I'd say get tackle on at least 1 blitzer to be able to deal with amazons/woodies/rats/ghouls/human catchers, since they will most likely have blodge as well.

So you'd say Tackle on the 2nd Blitzer?

I would get tackle on a blitzer as the second skill, after kick, and just hope I don't face woodies first game.

Yeah, sounds like a good idea.

[skatingtortoise]

imho i think that it might be worth going with your first roster (2 catchers, 2 blitzers, 7 linos) but drop the apo for a reroll. with ag 4 and a nice handful of RR's, you should have no trouble passing, and the decent movement of the positionals is enough to play a running game if neccesary.

i find the key to defence is surprise...skills such as pass block, dump off, side step, jump up, diving tackle and tackle are great for forcing a turnover. all you have to do then is pick up the ball, and run/pass it to your player whos in scoring range (you did put a player up there, didnt you?) even if you get a load of 1's the ball should still be much further from your endzone than it was...

as for skills, aside from those mentioned earlier, kick on a lino and dodge for catchers are excellent choices, as it means you can stick the catchers in the opposing half and not worry about getting them beaten up...at least one of them should be standing by the end...

[Mootaz]

Diving tackle, why do I always forget this skill?
Diving Tackle on the Blitzers could be nice. They have block and sidestep so blocking them is not always the best choice for the opponent. And Diving tackle is nice to pin those pesky elfs. One with Tackle, the other with Diving Tackle...

[Mootaz]

back from the Dungeonbowl and time to recap what I learned.
I went with the 2 Blitzers 2 Catchers 3 RR roster and it worked out nice. Won 3, Lost 3 => Place 24 out of 70.
I took Kick, Tackle, Diving Tackle, Block on Catcher, Dodge on Catcher. The skill choices worked out nicely, especially the Tackle/Diving Tackle combo on the blitzers was a pain for my opponents. I have to say I was lucky with my opponents, Human, Lizards, Undead, Lizards, Chaos Dwarf and Pro Elf, so I could use my skills to good effect.

I lost to the humans (or more precisely to Griff, my opponent had 10 Linemen and Griff Oberwald and I just couldn't contain him), to the Undead (with Count Luthor, again, I couldn't contain him) and to one of the Lizards. The Tackle/Diving Tackle combo would have worked wonders against the humans and Undead, but I didn't have it at the time of the matches.

I will definitely go on playing pro elves, I never had as much fun as with them.

EDIT: Of course I took 2 Catchers, not 2 Throwers.