How to defend against a flying thing?
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Kyojima
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Throw team mate should be affected by foul appearance. TTM requires the throwing player to make a pass action, and FA says it triggers when a player throws a pass, interception, or catch. No exceptions listed in the LRB about this particular interaction. Disturbing Presence from PBBL has the same rules, and the same lack of exceptions for TTM, that I can see.
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tomlloyd
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could someone explain where the 3+ or 4+ thing to avoid fumbles is from? also the landing roll having a +1 modifier for accurate passes?Tim wrote:Read the rules, make sure you play it correctly: The troll needs at least a 3+ to avoid the fumble on short range, 4+ on long range. Landing roll is also a 4+ (unless the pass is accurate on a 6). Basicly, it will only work 30-40% of all times (there's also Always hungry and possible TZ on the troll and the landing square).
we are using pbbl v.1.11, did these figures come from an earlier version? (didnt pay much attention to TTM in earlier ones). i can only spot the -1 to the pass roll which would mean you avoided fumbles on 2+ and 3+ for quick and short passes. and right stuff doesn't mention any positive modifiers to the landing roll. which means there's no difference in TTM between inaccurate and accurate passes?
i only ask cause TTM has seemed to work most of the time for our goblin player in pre-season friendlies and i want to make sure we're doing it right before our league starts!
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SolomonKane
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Understand I am writing this only having experience from LRB 4.0, but this little bit of history might help you understand TTM better for PBBL, with which I'm not familiar.
Well, when it comes to TTM, the main thing you're concerned about is not fumbling the player you're throwing. Accuracy is a bonus but certainly not required. The idea is just to get the would-be scorer downfield in a position where he CAN score.
Saying you need a 3+ or a 4+ to avoid a fumble (or even to make a dodge or a handoff or something) is a bad habit, though it's often necessary to calculate such target numbers ahead of time to plan your moves. But remember that what you're really supposed to do is roll your die THEN apply modifiers to the roll. I see a lot of online players trip themselves up (newer players, anyway) because they tend to fixate on what they think is their target number then realize they forgot a modifier somewhere. The reason I make mention of this is I wonder if your Goblin player is truly calculating his TTM results properly. But he could just be dumb lucky.
The 3+ or 4+ to avoid a fumble comes from applying standard passing modifiers to the TTM throw - Big Guys still suffer a -1 to TTM for every adjacent TZ on them (hence why Break Tackle is often a popular choice for TTMers, since you can move and then throw a player). Also, are you guys remembering that the range band shrinks with TTM, and that the modifiers are different than standard passing? You can only at maximum throw a Long Pass (10 squares in a straight line) but at a -2 modifier to the roll - which is normally a Long Bomb modifier. So you might guess it's -1 for Short Passes and no modifiers for Quick pass (so the +1 for normal Quick passes gets pushed off the modifier table completely). Hence a Long Pass would need 4+ to not fumble (4-2=2, which barely avoids a fumble) and a 3+ (3-1=2) on a Short Pass. So as you can see, it's hard enough to avoid fumbling on a TTM, never mind actually making an accurate throw! You'll notice that I don't mention the Big Guy's AG target for the throw. Note that probably 95% of the time the only way you can get an accurate throw from TTM is to roll a 6. Big Guy AG is normally too low to be accurate after modifiers and the TTM passing mods table is pretty unforgiving (unless, of course, the Big Guy has an AG increase or two, but even then...).
Also, on page 23 of the LRB 4.0 there IS a table which lists a +1 for landing after an accurate throw, so there is documentation for it. There's also a -1 for every TZ adjacent to the landing player. I don't know what the difference might be in PBBL, if any.
Well, when it comes to TTM, the main thing you're concerned about is not fumbling the player you're throwing. Accuracy is a bonus but certainly not required. The idea is just to get the would-be scorer downfield in a position where he CAN score.
Saying you need a 3+ or a 4+ to avoid a fumble (or even to make a dodge or a handoff or something) is a bad habit, though it's often necessary to calculate such target numbers ahead of time to plan your moves. But remember that what you're really supposed to do is roll your die THEN apply modifiers to the roll. I see a lot of online players trip themselves up (newer players, anyway) because they tend to fixate on what they think is their target number then realize they forgot a modifier somewhere. The reason I make mention of this is I wonder if your Goblin player is truly calculating his TTM results properly. But he could just be dumb lucky.
The 3+ or 4+ to avoid a fumble comes from applying standard passing modifiers to the TTM throw - Big Guys still suffer a -1 to TTM for every adjacent TZ on them (hence why Break Tackle is often a popular choice for TTMers, since you can move and then throw a player). Also, are you guys remembering that the range band shrinks with TTM, and that the modifiers are different than standard passing? You can only at maximum throw a Long Pass (10 squares in a straight line) but at a -2 modifier to the roll - which is normally a Long Bomb modifier. So you might guess it's -1 for Short Passes and no modifiers for Quick pass (so the +1 for normal Quick passes gets pushed off the modifier table completely). Hence a Long Pass would need 4+ to not fumble (4-2=2, which barely avoids a fumble) and a 3+ (3-1=2) on a Short Pass. So as you can see, it's hard enough to avoid fumbling on a TTM, never mind actually making an accurate throw! You'll notice that I don't mention the Big Guy's AG target for the throw. Note that probably 95% of the time the only way you can get an accurate throw from TTM is to roll a 6. Big Guy AG is normally too low to be accurate after modifiers and the TTM passing mods table is pretty unforgiving (unless, of course, the Big Guy has an AG increase or two, but even then...).
Also, on page 23 of the LRB 4.0 there IS a table which lists a +1 for landing after an accurate throw, so there is documentation for it. There's also a -1 for every TZ adjacent to the landing player. I don't know what the difference might be in PBBL, if any.
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tomlloyd
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thanks for your reply, the rules are quite different in pbbl 1.11 though (should have been clearer, by 'previous versions' i meant of the pbbl rules!). those percentage stats from the above post of 20-30% success rate are right though i have subsequently worked out, and thats not even incuding the pickups and hand offs necessary (takes it down to 13% or something i think), so i think our goblin player has just been unusually lucky so far!
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