Kicking rules

keggiemckill · Post by **keggiemckill** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:16 pm

By the way I meen to use a kick during a drive rather than using it only at the start of a kick off. If I didnt come accross correctly. More Like Rugby League, since thats is what BB closely resembles. Sorry but I couldnt let it go.

Ive thought about it some more and heres my proposal: My idea is to make the kick skill more like the hailmary pass, with it being used as a game play option. Example: In play Pop Kicking the ball in the air where everyone sees where it will land at the end of your turn, but not ending your turn. Then trying to run under it and catch it, with a -1 to catch. It wont over take a throw because you wont be able to run further down the pitch until next turn, because the ball landing will be the turn end. Its healthy alternative to simply being one dimensional, by either running and or passing. It would make great possiblities for some teams.

chunky04 · Post by **chunky04** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:37 am

Having used the kicking rules those were based off, I can say that unless you increase the value of TD's to compensate, you completely ruin the game. It simply makes the high speed, high agility teams unstoppable, as it really isn't very difficult for them to get within kicking range, and very little you can do to stop it.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:55 am

When the MBBL was playtesting the Annual Kicking rules, I believe a TD was worth 3 points, and a Field Goal 1 pt, so you could win by kicking alone, but you needed a good defense.

kadu-c · Post by **kadu-c** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:30 am

Darkson wrote:When the MBBL was playtesting the Annual Kicking rules, I believe a TD was worth 3 points, and a Field Goal 1 pt, so you could win by kicking alone, but you needed a good defense.

I'm quite sure that it was 3 pts for a TD and 2 pts for a FG.
Anyway, adding Kicking rules would change too much a system that already works well. However it could be an interesting variant: the Kick Bowl !

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:45 pm

MBBL2 still uses kicking rules and skills to move the ball ... but no field goals allowed.

Galak

dali · Post by **dali** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:13 pm

How about using kicks to kick the ball only when it's on the ground? Treat it essentially like a standard pass action, but without needing a roll to pick up the ball first (and if you have the ball already, you have to throw it as normal). There could be an extra negative modifier to balance it out slightly, but I could see it working for teams trying to boot the ball away from the opposition in a tight situation.
I'm happy without kicking rules, but that's probably the route I'd take otherwise.

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:16 am

Yeah, if kicking rules are used they should be purely for moving the ball around. No points must be scored from kicking as it changes the basic principles of Blood Bowl too much. There is only one way to score and that is to run into the endzone holding the ball.

I do like the idea of having the ability to kick the ball though. Why should it be banned in a game of Blood Bowl? Being able to kick the ball off the ground instead of picking it up is an interesting idea. There should be a chance of fumbling the kick, resulting in the kicker falling over and having to make an armour roll. Plus the kick should result in a turn over.

I am not normaly one to offer rules changes but for the hell of it and cos it is better than working

maybe something like this could be used:

(not even going to try and write the rule comprehensively)

allow players to kick the ball instead of picking it up. When a player moves into the square where the ball is lying he may attempt to kick the ball.

2+ to kick the ball for all players, -1 for every tackle zone on the kicker, -1 for each disturbing presence in effect, Nerves of Steel ignores the tackle zone modifiers.

If a 1 after modifications is rolled the kicker misses the ball and falls over in the square where the ball is - the ball will scatter. Make an armour roll for the player with a -1 modifier to their armour to represent the unexpected nature of the fall.

On a 2+ after modifications the player kicks the ball a number of squares equal to their strength plus the d6 roll made to kick the ball. (Declare which direction you are trying to kick the ball before making the roll for the kick - think of the scatter template when aiming - the ball travels in a straight line from that point). The ball can't be intercepted and bounces once from the final square it lands in.

thats a quick off the top of my head idea.

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:18 am

And obviously the kick action results in a turn over

David Bergkvist · Post by **David Bergkvist** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:28 am

Why not make it much simpler: Kicking the ball works just like a normal pass except that the player does not have to roll to pick it up first and strong arm cannot be used (but accurate and hail mary pass can).

pac · Post by **pac** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:41 am

David Bergkvist wrote:Why not make it much simpler: Kicking the ball works just like a normal pass except that the player does not have to roll to pick it up first and strong arm cannot be used (but accurate and hail mary pass can).

For one thing: because when you kick an oval ball off the turf (ie, when it's just lying there, not when it has been set up with a support especially to be kicked), you don't have anything resembling accuracy - certainly not the accuracy of a thrown pass. Nor can you get all that much power on the kick (unless you're prepared to completely shank it): it's just going to bobble along the ground. To get distance or accuracy on a kick, you have to pick the ball up first (or stand it on its end in a prepared position).

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:28 pm

What Pac said.

Plus it must not replace Pass. This must be a desperate action. Actually 2+ to kick may be too easy. Maybe 3+ for all players (I am avoiding making it a standard agility roll to stop the agility teams from having an advantage)

David Bergkvist · Post by **David Bergkvist** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:08 pm

pac wrote:For one thing: because when you kick an oval ball off the turf (ie, when it's just lying there, not when it has been set up with a support especially to be kicked), you don't have anything resembling accuracy - certainly not the accuracy of a thrown pass.

OK, so give it a -1 modifier, and make an inaccurate kick scatter like the kick-off, then.

Nor can you get all that much power on the kick (unless you're prepared to completely shank it): it's just going to bobble along the ground.

I think it's much easier to kick a ball a far distance than to throw it. (But that's of course with round balls, but why would oval balls be any different?)

pac · Post by **pac** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:23 pm

David Bergkvist wrote:
Nor can you get all that much power on the kick (unless you're prepared to completely shank it): it's just going to bobble along the ground.
I think it's much easier to kick a ball a far distance than to throw it. (But that's of course with round balls, but why would oval balls be any different?)

Out of the hand (or if the ball is set to be kicked), this is true. Kicking the ball off the floor is a completely different matter, with an oval ball, whose bounces invariably defy prediction.

With round balls (soccer balls), apart from having 'sweet spots' it doesn't matter where you kick them, their behaviour will be more or less the same. Oval balls behave very differently depending upon where you strike them and their orientation. A Blood Bowl ball lying in a square should not be thought of as literally static (otherwise pick-up rolls would not be so difficult), but as bouncing and spinning. It is going to be very difficult indeed to get a clean connection with a ball like that.

Edit: I do like the idea of being able to kick without picking up, however. It passes my personal test that kicking must do things in-game which aren't just slightly modified duplicates of passing, and aren't (just) artificial additions to the game. But it would be a desperation manoeuvre, as DaImp says. Perhaps it could be done by checking for a fumble (on a 1, including TZ mods) then using the Throw-in template to see where the ball goes (coach picks the direction to point the template, then rolls), travelling 1d6 squares (unless perhaps you had the right Kicking skill for kicking off the ground, when you could pick the exact direction).

David Bergkvist · Post by **David Bergkvist** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:49 pm

pac wrote:With round balls (soccer balls), apart from having 'sweet spots' it doesn't matter where you kick them, their behaviour will be more or less the same. Oval balls behave very differently depending upon where you strike them and their orientation. A Blood Bowl ball lying in a square should not be thought of as literally static (otherwise pick-up rolls would not be so difficult), but as bouncing and spinning. It is going to be very difficult indeed to get a clean connection with a ball like that.

OK, but with my latest suggestion of a -1 modifier, you will have an increased risk of fumbling, which means the probability of getting the ball somewhere is lower than if you throw it.

pac wrote:But it would be a desperation manoeuvre, as DaImp says.

What's the purpose of a rule that specifically allows "desperation manouvres"? You can attempt to pick up the ball in several TZs and attempt to pass it if you're desperate enough -- you don't need to extend the rules with a specific thing to do just beacuse you're desperate.

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:07 pm

i like the idea of kicking as it gives some more options, but this is more of a new concepts type thread than pbbl sutff now...