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[Ithilkir]

Re: Longfang last year not getting full painting.

It was because he wasn't there for game four, so he couldn't get any points for that round.

[Gumbo]

First: the "referee" for the final didnt know the rules.

This basically lost me a game v ogres (1-0) that cleared my team off the pitch because the referee didn't know a basic rule about Multiple Block (he informed my opponent that players could assist a Multiple Block whilst they were standing in both targets tackle zones (without guard). This is wrong and has been wrong since Multi Block was invented (back in 1994?), but had me completely doubting my sanity so i didn't question the refs' decision out of respect, until after the game. My NAF ranking took a pounding this weekend and it frankly takes the piss that i should lose a probably 6 or 7 points because a 'ref' with a Madonna head-set doesn't know what he's on about.

Tbh, from an English taste, I wasn't that impressed either. The cottage pie on Saturday evening was nice, but the "roast" on Sunday was awful, and there wasn't much choice on the Saturday. .

It wasn't even the food, i could eat it and i needed protein, it was the fact that Grumbledook was actually told to give back a Yorkshire pudding from his plate when the guy had served it to him because he had chicken not beef. It's because my girlfriend who hung about most of the day couldn't get a plate of food from the canteen because it was "more than my jobs worth". I find it hard to believe people can be so unmercifully petty; i don't even mean the staff, its the managers; the staff are only doing there job. Never felt so unwelcome at a tournament but luckily there are people who go to this and other tournaments that i hope i am friends with for a very long time and make it all worth while.

[Lycos]

Well I have no complaints. I thought it was great.

Food. Was it great....er, no it was ok. But then you try catering for 200 people from 6+ nationalities and heaven knows what food tastes people have. Its impossible to please 180 players, 20 or so GW staff etc. All you can do is serve up average food to please the majority and anything beyond it is good...cmon, get a grip, bashing GW seems to be the norm but lets be serious here, you are NEVER gonna get a weekend of 180 players, from many countries, with different ideas, different tastes and lifestyles to all say thanks.

Although the rules bit I grant you, is a concern. Give you that....

[Tritex]

I agree the food was very poor. I was told they laid on great meals but was not impressed. The lasagnia was OK but oven chips and very little salad to boot. the alternative being some kind of meat baguette...not my idea of choice.
The night was very bad...Watery curry of tastless shepards pie?

Anyone finish any of that red S*%&! they had on with the curry and popadoms...It was rancid..tasted like an Orcs Gullet!! (And no I haven't tasted one but have a good imagination).

[fen]

Second: 4th game matches in the first tables. They left 1 turn to end the match...one of the referees ask them to stop. In both games one of the players did can score for the draw. The argument is that they need the half-hour to introduce the results. Ok, pretty well, but you can start introducing the other ones and give a last chance to score. Is not about 20 minutes...its about 5 minutes.

Ok, this one I can't let go. Now, I used to agree with your view, but having seen it from the "other side", I can understand their point. It is spelt out in black & white that games get 2 hours. 2 hours, not 2 hours 30m, 2 hours 15m or 2 hours and 5 min - it's 2 hours. There were people coming up after every round asking when the next one started, or when the lists would be posted. Well, every game that ran over delays that for everyone else. 190 coaches in each round - 180-odd manage to finish in time. I understand it was tense at the top (I've been there once!), but they can't start making exceptions for one or two coaches - if they'd let that game play on, then they have to let everyones cary on.

Exactly right, sure it's a bit of a pain that the two coaches have to stop playing so close to the end of their match. But in a tournament of that size you can't set a precident like that. I run large Magic tournaments for work and when time is called there is no arguments. The only thing I could say is they could instate a 'finish current turn' rule (I don't know if they did this.)

But tbh, if you haven't finished the match in time the only person to blame was sat at your table.

Smaller tournaments can well be run with a little more relaxed attitude with regards to time keeping. But something this size should have a definate and solid rule about what happens when time is called.

[grotuk]

Second: 4th game matches in the first tables. They left 1 turn to end the match...one of the referees ask them to stop. In both games one of the players did can score for the draw. The argument is that they need the half-hour to introduce the results. Ok, pretty well, but you can start introducing the other ones and give a last chance to score. Is not about 20 minutes...its about 5 minutes.

Ok, this one I can't let go. Now, I used to agree with your view, but having seen it from the "other side", I can understand their point. It is spelt out in black & white that games get 2 hours. 2 hours, not 2 hours 30m, 2 hours 15m or 2 hours and 5 min - it's 2 hours. There were people coming up after every round asking when the next one started, or when the lists would be posted. Well, every game that ran over delays that for everyone else. 190 coaches in each round - 180-odd manage to finish in time. I understand it was tense at the top (I've been there once!), but they can't start making exceptions for one or two coaches - if they'd let that game play on, then they have to let everyones cary on.

Exactly right, sure it's a bit of a pain that the two coaches have to stop playing so close to the end of their match. But in a tournament of that size you can't set a precident like that. I run large Magic tournaments for work and when time is called there is no arguments. The only thing I could say is they could instate a 'finish current turn' rule (I don't know if they did this.)

But tbh, if you haven't finished the match in time the only person to blame was sat at your table.

Smaller tournaments can well be run with a little more relaxed attitude with regards to time keeping. But something this size should have a definate and solid rule about what happens when time is called.

I meaning to let finish the last turn...not more, Olaf and Pulpo can score in that turn...but they didnt let them play 3-4 minutes more. By the way, with the 4 minute rule the time for a match is more than 2 hours.

About the food, last years was much better IMO.

[traveller]

the food was very poor

... just come over to the Germany GW DungeonBowl next year. This year food was great. We spend a great night at a Mexican Restaurante GW Germany did a good job. (OK, not as much people here as at the BB... ... but still about 80-90 persons )

But i remember the food 3 year ago at the BB. And it wasnt the best, too.

Traveller

[rodders]

the food was the worse of the three BB's i have attended by a looooong way

and the 4 min rule makes for a 2 hr 8 min game plus set up time / ko rolls etc in between drives

in one of magic daves games at the bottom of turn 8 time was called when his opponent had only 2 rolls to make to eak out a draw it took longer to ague over the ethics of him allowing his opponent to make the rolls than for him to do it. (which he did and pulled out a draw) both coaches were happy for this to happen


IMO the ticket wasn't worth the extra £10 on top of last years price as costs were obvoiusly cut but having said that it was organized better.

[Indigo]

most of (this is not about you Darkson) the refeeres didnt know the rules.

I know the rules?
Shame I can't play the game though.

From what I saw of the other referees they were pants. They should only be referees if they actually know the rules and shouldn't make up a decision on the spot like some kind of power mad shop troll. Though they don't give a f**k what they say, it REALLY affects the outcome of a game and the enjoyment had by players over the weekend.

Second: 4th game matches in the first tables. They left 1 turn to end the match...one of the referees ask them to stop. In both games one of the players did can score for the draw. The argument is that they need the half-hour to introduce the results. Ok, pretty well, but you can start introducing the other ones and give a last chance to score. Is not about 20 minutes...its about 5 minutes.

Ok, this one I can't let go. Now, I used to agree with your view, but having seen it from the "other side", I can understand their point. It is spelt out in black & white that games get 2 hours. 2 hours, not 2 hours 30m, 2 hours 15m or 2 hours and 5 min - it's 2 hours. There were people coming up after every round asking when the next one started, or when the lists would be posted. Well, every game that ran over delays that for everyone else. 190 coaches in each round - 180-odd manage to finish in time. I understand it was tense at the top (I've been there once!), but they can't start making exceptions for one or two coaches - if they'd let that game play on, then they have to let everyones cary on.

Mate I am surprised to hear you say that
If, as you say, 180 people finish their game in under 2 hours then they can be entering the results as the round is still being played which seriously cuts down on the time pressure. Also, they allocated a full hour AT LEAST between each game - how can they say they have time pressures when after game 2 on Sunday (for example) we waited for over 2 hours to play? It takes most peope 30 mins to eat and since we know for a fact that no-one was playing once time was called on round 2, we know everyone had AT LEAST 2 hours. People were milling about for over an hour yet only needed 10 more minutes play? F**king stupid.

It's a shambles. All other independent tournies manage to allow some slight overrun on games, even though independents are much more constrained by the venue they are in (i.e. they don't own it).

GW has no excuse. They own the hall, they own Bugmans and they own the staff. Either change the timetable to allow 2.5 hours max, cutting down on unnecessary breaks, or allow a moderate overrun enforcing the 4 minute rule.

I do agree though that everyone knows the rules before they join so arguing that they need more time is simply not on. Argue before the event, argue after the event but AT the event just play your game.

Third: The random of the games. Which manager did they use? What rubish is it? People playing the same player twice and people with better results in tables under others with the same points.

Honestly not sure on this one. My understanding was (and note I didn't see the spreadsheet) it based the positions on games points first, then by your first name alphabetically (which I agree wasn't ideal). I don't think they used a dedicated Tourney Manager, I think it was just a normal Excel spreadsheet. Wheter that's because they don't know there's one out there, or they just don't want to use it, I've non idea.
If someone can send me the link (or links) for Tourney Management tools, I'll pass it onto the GW guys.

They don't use a tourney manager despite the fact that for EVERY SINGLE BB I have offered one. I'm not sure what it is but they just don't want it despite the fact that every year they screw something up with the results.

Next year I am going to say my name is zzzDave. Why? So I don't get drawn against all the good coaches whose names begin with D or C etc. in round 2.

This year's "coin" sucks...

I quite like it - I perfered it to the 2003/3004 ones.

It's great, much better than last year.

Also, for the spanish taste, the food was terrible..

Tbh, from an English taste, I wasn't that impressed either. The cottage pie on Saturday evening was nice, but the "roast" on Sunday was awful, and there wasn't much choice on the Saturday.

The food ALWAYS sucks. They could knock over £20 off the price and just make people buy what they wanted if they wanted it. Either that or offer something more than "meat" baguette & chips. But compared to all the other problems, the food is not really an issue and at least we get something. I'd far rather have them sort out the organisation with decent refs, long enough games and ACTUAL PRIZES for the winners. FFS come on, they make the damn models yet they don't even give a single prize away?

And from a personal point of view I was disappointed to see someone call IP at this event. It's just not on.

[Ithilkir]

Talking to Brian again on the Monday and he mentioned he'd love it for the NAF to 'take over', they'd be happy to host it and provide the cup etc, but if the NAF would provide refs and TO's then the money not needed to be spent on the wages for the events staff that weekend could be saved on the ticket price or used for prizes.

But that's upto the NAF...

[Indigo]

I was under the impression the NAF had already offered...
Though not 100% granted.

[Mordredd]

I think what they needed was specific individuals volunteering rather than a general offer from the organisation (from what I heard of one conversation).

[Pipey]

Have to agree about the TOs. Surely they could wait 5 minutes for a game to be completed.

I guess they would argue that if you let everyone have a little bit of extra time every round then too many players would overrun - leading to delays. However, this doesn't happen at other big tournies where the attitude is much more lenient. The Dutch Open is a perfect example.

I wasn't able to finish my game with Lycos in round one. I had to finish it at the end of turn 7. The result could have been different. At 1-0 down I was within scoring range and looking pretty good.

I'm not just disappointed that I lost and could very well have snatched a draw. It's just a really unsatisfactory way to end a game, especially against a great opponent like Lycos whom I always thoroughly enjoy playing.

Btw Lycos this is not a pop at you in any way. I guess we both had no choice but to do what the TO said. Looking forward to playing 16 turns against you some time soon!

Apart from this I have no major complaints. I think GW have learned from the gaming community in general about how to run tournies but there is still some way to go.

Maybe if NAF had been in charge of running the Blood Bowl then there wouldn't have been so many problems.

[dantitan76]

GW refs sucks... I was quiet impressed with the nice "For the painting contest, please leave yourARMIES on the tables..."

Unless NAF takes over (and my economy changes) I wont make it next year...

[Darkson]

Talking to Brian again on the Monday and he mentioned he'd love it for the NAF to 'take over', they'd be happy to host it and provide the cup etc, but if the NAF would provide refs and TO's then the money not needed to be spent on the wages for the events staff that weekend could be saved on the ticket price or used for prizes.

But that's upto the NAF...

Not sure on saving the Event's staff wages, I was under the impression from Chet they were all volunteers.

But I was told the same thing re NAF providing the refs, but I wasn't sure if it was meant to be put "out there" yet (I had emailed Woody). Both Andy and Chet told me that Brian had told them he'd be happy to see the NAF provide the refs for the BB.