I come to you again.....

elmascap_ullo · Post by **elmascap_ullo** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:24 pm

well as I ve been reading some logical thinks of veteran players i will try to be as precise as I can.

I play wood elves (the ones that can make you dizzy just crossing form one side to the other of the pitch)

I play the LRB4 and I usually make this roster for one off games

rookie treemen 120
2wardancer 240
2 catcher 180
thrower 90
5linemen 350

no rerrolls allowed in our games....

I cant play the dodge away everyturn against my friend with skaven becouse it's a deal between us, of course he wont do it for the same reason.

My main problem is that I cant get myself into his half zone becouse he keps surrounding my catchers and using his blitz against one ot them which leaves me one stunned (if he's unlucky) and the other in 3 or 4 takle zones which means a low possibillity of getting the ball from a pass.

So i get forced into going up with my thrower in a cage which is quite hopeless for me as i choose wood elves to pass and run not to make slow moving tactics.... and he always manages to break it with a pair of skaven blitzers and the BIGRAT

ALL this leves me with the final question...

Could anybody please help me in anyway to beat skaven?

mlindsay2706 · Post by **mlindsay2706** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:13 pm

counter the rat ogre with your treeman.

im not an elf player, so if im corrected, listen to the other dudes

ok skaven have their GR's, Storm Vermin thrower and linos.
you have your Catchers, throwers, wardancers and linos.

id counter each of his roles with one of yours.

but mostly, take him at the line of scrimmage. use your linos to block then once you have the ball, make the break with th catchers for the TD pass.

fen · Post by **fen** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:33 pm

mlindsay2706 wrote:counter the rat ogre with your treeman.

It's a really bad rat player who lets their Rat Ogre get anywhere near a treeman. The RO is probably one of the most manuverable big guys with MA6 and he normally lurks in the wide zones. In contrast the Tree is the slowest player in the game and rarely gets more than three squares away from the LoS.

elmascap_ullo wrote:I cant play the dodge away everyturn against my friend with skaven becouse it's a deal between us, of course he wont do it for the same reason.

Bad deal imo, his team is as fast as yours. But the advantage you have is you can dodge away key players. If you're not going to do that then well it's going to be tough.
Ok thoughts:
You need to send more than 2 catchers back field to receive, both Wardancers and as many linemen as possible should be up there also.
This is all you need back field to secure the ball btw.

Code: Select all

|.L.L.L..
|..T....L

Or if you're confident the Gutter Runners won't get through

Code: Select all

|.L..L..L
|........
|..T.....

Get every other man you can up field for recieving. Remember that ANY player within 7-9 squares of the endzone is a potential scorer. Try to mark pairs of his players with loose men like this:

Code: Select all

S.S            S..
.E.     or     .ES

etc...
Oh and drop the treeman if all you're doing is playing one offs. The Treeman is lousy against skaven. Get a second thrower so you can leave him near the LoS (hand off to him, throw with him if he's left free) And possibly upgrade a lineman to a Catcher, as you have no rerolls the extra skills on him makes him very useful to move for assists.

Oh and throw a sacrificial lineman at the Rat Ogre (positioned to force it to frenzy away from the sidelines and to a place where there is no action.)
Just thoughts garnered from back when I played Woodies & Skaven.

Most of all, use your mobility. Maybe you won't dodge everyone away, but you've got to dodge some of them, otherwise you might as well be playing Skaven yourself.

mlindsay2706 · Post by **mlindsay2706** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:46 pm

fen wrote:
mlindsay2706 wrote:counter the rat ogre with your treeman.
It's a really bad rat player who lets their Rat Ogre get anywhere near a treeman. The RO is probably one of the most manuverable big guys with MA6 and he normally lurks in the wide zones. In contrast the Tree is the slowest player in the game and rarely gets more than three squares away from the LoS.

there you go then, i was wrong

fen · Post by **fen** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:01 pm

heh, not wrong as such. Misguided maybe.

It's just, well the Treeman is bigger, tougher and stronger than the RO. As he gets 2D blocks against the RO you might as well run away from the Tree and let him beat on a linerat (or just pull out of his range alltogether.)

Stout Youngblood · Post by **Stout Youngblood** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:17 am

You may want to try going with:
4 catchers 360
2 wardancers 240
1 thrower 90
4 lineman 280

He won't be able to surround all your catchers and if he tries, use your wardancers to score.

mlindsay2706 · Post by **mlindsay2706** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:42 am

fen wrote:heh, not wrong as such. Misguided maybe.

It's just, well the Treeman is bigger, tougher and stronger than the RO. As he gets 2D blocks against the RO you might as well run away from the Tree and let him beat on a linerat (or just pull out of his range alltogether.)

Yeh, i can understand that. Treeman cant really, 'dodge' so use one of the fodder to hold him.

In the other topic elmascap_ullo has put up, Ianwilliams has mentioned about the no re-rolls. thats a point to think about.

fen · Post by **fen** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:49 am

Yeah, I agree (as I often do) with Ian on that front. The teams were designed with the reroll costs and requirements to balance them. Removing rerolls tips the balance towards those teams that start with reroll/reroll reducing skills. (while also making the matches more of a crap shoot.)

elmascap_ullo · Post by **elmascap_ullo** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:26 am

the idea of not using rerrolls in our league comes from when we couldnt really understand the rules so well as now, but it came to be quite fun that any roll of dice is quite important (more than normal).

but we have been thinking about it and we are going to start playing the FULL LRB5 (with rerrolls) as it is new for everyone of us....

Thank you for the advices against skaven

The Florist · Post by **The Florist** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:31 am

I've always struggled playing Skaven against Woodies.

They handle the ball better, and they outfight you since they can dodge their players to always outnumber you. Sounds like that gentleman's agreement of yours is robbing you of the main advantage of AG 4 across the board.

Also, you don't have to do two turn scores against Skaven. For once, your opponent is the one who gets beaten up. Have fun with that, and make him rush his game instead.

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:41 pm

I didn't see you talk about your WarDancers much. If your catchers are getting mobbed with too many tz to get away, leap with your WarDancers free.

Also, it takes about 3 rats to really contain a catcher. So if he's tied up 6 rats on two catchers plus blitzed another... There should only be about 5 rats or so to cover the rest of your 8 Elfs. Some-one has to be open...

On defense kick short, so that his Gutter runners are within range of the leaping Wardancers immediately. With only 1 blitz, he can't take both of yours down. Hit him, and hit him hard, the gutters should be just as fragile as your catchers.

I think dropping the Tree s a good idea too, expecially if he's not lining the Rat Ogre up against him on the LOS when you kick to him. The only thing a treeman is good for is to soak damage on the LOS when you kick. Against Skaven that ned is diminished.

Best of luck.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:05 pm

exactly. the fact that all of your players are ag4 and ma7 means that ANYONE on your team can be a "catcher" even if they aren't technically the catcher position.

if your skaven opponent is surrounding your catchers with that many players, then wardancers and line elves should easily be able to score against the remaining rats.