BG rant

[arv9673]

So, I can't sleep this morning and I get up and log on to Fumbbl to get a fix. Play my Humans, whom I haven't played in awhile. In a fit of crazy spending a couple games ago, I bought an Ogre, just for grins. I have regretted it ever since. SO much so that he was Killed fairly early on in that match and I didn't even bother to Apo him. Good riddence IMO.
I tried him out, though maybe didn't use him as effectively as I could've. But every time I really NEEDED him... BH roll 1! I frankly would rather have the RR (team has 5 now). Anyway... I will (probably) never buy another ogre for a human team again. I just can't see the need. With enough guards, anyone can be brought down, plus, if the mummy or treeman need that many guards, just mark 'em with unskilled lino "Joe Schmuckatelly" and go around. I did end up tying that game, which surprised me. ST4 WW are a freaking nightmare, especially when they're Blodgers as well! I kept forgetting the combo of WW can put you off the pitch from as many as four squares out: I was down players on most drives very quickly in. But I managed to tie the game with a little luck, decent postional usage (passers passing, catchers catching, blitzers blitzing ) and WITHOUT the damn Ogre. Never again... for now.

[Snew]

Racial purity! Big Guys belong in the locker room, not on the pitch.

I agreee with you entirely. They'll cost you more games than they'll win.

[Rab]

You're right, Snew, and yet..... I can't quite bring myself to play my skaven without the Rat Ogre

[TuernRedvenom]

I think big guys are still very much worth it! Especially the Ogre is a good one in a human team. He can anchor your line and soak up a lot of damage. The trick is to give him guard and stand firm and just stick him somewhere where his assists and tz are most usefull. As long as he can do that you don't even have to take an action with him (and risking failing BH and losing your tz) for him to be usefull.
Things will go invariably wrong when coaches insist on their big guys taking important actions (like blitzing ball carriers), all the time.

[Neil McAndrew]

There are a couple of good thing about the ogre, firstly he makes great LOS fodder and lets you take fewer linos for SPP dispersal. Secondly, he creates a target that people either put too many players on in an attempt to take out of the game, or he creates a hole that players don't want to put players near to just incase.
I'd never devote my strategy on drives to my ogre in a game, but he does create options just by being on the pitch.

[Bizzy]

In my opinion Big Guys are almost always worth it. They can make a speedy team have a little muscle, give a strong team more strength, and most importantly people love hitting them. OHHHH A BIG GUY lets spend 3 turns trying to hurt him. This gives your other guys the chance they need to run or beat up people. When people see a Big Guy they get afraid of the ST factor he brings to the field, and as it was said give him standfirm, and guard don't use him too much and your set. In my opinion a Big Guy should be picked up after your team is set and skilled up some. Of course this can be done differently for Wood Elves, Halfling, Goblins, and the sort.

[kithor2002]

I play Humans and Orcs better without a BG.
They are too unreliable.
On a Lizardmenteam the Krox is a big support on the other hand.
So it depends on the team and the BG type.

[Joemanji]

At least you don't have to use a Minotaur! Now they are useless.

But you have to play BGs a certain way. Ogres are just lumbering LoS fodder and roadblocks. That is all you need to do with them. Don't activate them unless you have nothing to lose, and even then do so last in a turn. If you ever need to rely on a BG, you are using them wrong, or your opponent has outplayed you and forced you into a bad position. Don't block every turn. Don't move unless you have to ... leave the Ogre where he is and move others around him. You might think this sounds like a waste of 140K ... but it really isn't it you get it right.

Have fun.
Joe

[Joemanji]

To be fair, when I play Humans the last thing I buy is an Ogre. The team can operate with one (and they always seem to die).

[Snew]

I just can't see spending 2-3X the cost of a Lineguy to not use him, leave him on the line or loose the Blitz. I have a versatile, faster, more reliable team without a BG. If you bring one, I'm not spending 3 guys and 3 turns focusing on him. He's going to end a turn for you or leave a hole when he boneheads and then I'm going to capitalize on it.

[Kragz89]

At least you don't have to use a Minotaur! Now they are useless.

The minotaur in our league is the most feared player in the league at the moment. It's on my brother's norse team, he's 5 games into the season at the moment and his minotaur has 13 CAS and 3 MVP's. I'm just glad he hasn't rolled doubles on him yet, we have a house rule that if you roll doubles you have the option of taking off a negative effect. So he could get rid of loner or wild animal on a doubles. Another feared Big Guy is Ir Smurt a troll from the goblin team, he rolled doubles in his first game and got Really Stupid removed. He's also the number 1 target for fouls soon as he hits the ground.

[wesleytj]

I tried him out, though maybe didn't use him as effectively as I could've. But every time I really NEEDED him... BH roll 1!

Therein lies your problem. You should never be relying on your ogre. Set it up such that when he is able to hit a guy near him, great, and if not, no big deal. give him guard to help anchor the line and help those around him, even if he doesn't actually DO anything.

You need to re-assess your use of him; just because big guys are not well suited for the purpose you were assigning them, does not make them useless.

[Cramy]

Ogres and Trolls. Buy them last, use them for special occasions (throwing Goblins for example). Never rely on them. As somebody else said, put him on the LoS and let him soak-up hits. If he attracts half the other team trying to knock them down, great. You should have a pretty good shot at scoring then. Don't activate him unless you have to.

If you do want to activate him to move him, you can do that early in your turn such that if you lose your TZ, you can bring somebody-else in to block the huge hole that the idiot just created.

If you want to activate him to block, then move somebody first to block the potential huge hole that the idiot may create. Then block. If you miss the RS/BH roll or the BG knocks himself over, then you have some back-up to fill the hole.

Having said that, I tend not to use these two Big Guys.

But as Minotaurs and RO don't lose their TZ if they miss, I tend to use them occasionally. But again, I buy them last.

I tend to love it when I play against a rookie team that has a BG. And I use the "Joe Schmuckatelly" approach that you suggested. This is a great role for that niggler or that -AG lino that you will probalby retire eventually anyways.

[Joemanji]

I just can't see spending 2-3X the cost of a Lineguy to not use him, leave him on the line or loose the Blitz. I have a versatile, faster, more reliable team without a BG. If you bring one, I'm not spending 3 guys and 3 turns focusing on him. He's going to end a turn for you or leave a hole when he boneheads and then I'm going to capitalize on it.

Well, ignoring the attitude, not using him every turn is not the same as not using him. Passive actions win games. You can force your opponent to spend 3 turns and 3 guys focusing on a BG. Wander him into base contact with two ST3 players ... tada!! Your opponent has to move in 2 assists and throw the block (= 3 guys) to get him out of the way. That is getting value out of the player, and is something that a lineman won't do for you. The point is ... if your opponent chooses to ignore the Ogre, he has to dodge or you are marking 2 guys with 1. Advantage you. Or he uses 3 guys trying to get rid of him. If he knocks him over ... great! Trying to stand up a Bonehead is a zero risk action. Again, the aim is not to block with the Ogre next turn. Lots of people seem to think because he has MB he is good for blocking. If he is marking up 2 guys I can use that man advantage somewhere else.

At end of the day, sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't. Like everything in BB.

[Snew]

What attitude? Why do you try and read so much into my posts?

Your point's valid though.