BG rant

[GalakStarscraper]

What attitude? Why do you try and read so much into my posts?

Okay I'm backing Steve up on that one Joe ... there wasn't a single trace of attitude in his reply.

Let's try to avoid comments about attitude [this is directed at all TBBers not just Joe] unless it really is present because all the comment does normally is make the situation worse to be honest.

Galak

[GalakStarscraper]

It should be noted on this subject that one of the goals of the LRB 5.0 that JJ had was that Big Guys should be "maybe haves" for teams and not "must haves". So the fact that some folks see them as good and some see them as a waste is actually the effect being aimed for.

Galak

[arv9673]

Maybe I should explain my point... (maybe not, but I'm going to anyway )

If you want to activate him to block, then move somebody first to block the potential huge hole that the idiot may create. Then block. If you miss the RS/BH roll or the BG knocks himself over, then you have some back-up to fill the hole. "

Now I'm using two people for his two people. Zero sum equation.
I tend to have very bad luck. This is compounded by my lack of coaching skill. The ogre was bought fairly late (16th player) and instead of a 6th RR. He died after 2 games (fouled), in the second turn of the second game. In his first game, he missed several BH rolls in which all I wanted to do was move him up the pitch to provide part of a rolling wall. Now, if he can't even MOVE, he is not going to be on my team. Humans have enough versatility to play without them. My FTF league still uses LRB 4.0 and we have outlawed (houseruled?) BG. Yes, it's a racially "pure" league. Obviously, Snew is a person of impeccable character and outstanding moral fiber. Don't let them get you down Snew! We're behind you all the way!

[fen]

It should be noted on this subject that one of the goals of the LRB 5.0 that JJ had was that Big Guys should be "maybe haves" for teams and not "must haves". So the fact that some folks see them as good and some see them as a waste is actually the effect being aimed for.

I think the original post is about LRB4 Big Guys as FUMBBL is mentioned.

But anyway, LRB5 has managed to make some big guys debatable picks. For me a bit part of this is weighing up their value against Spiraling Expenses and Inducements. Some of the Big Guys still work out as a deal, some of them work out as not worth it. I think personally the % chances of me taking a given big guy in my prefered lineup feel like this.

Chaos Minotaur - 40% (Yeah that's way up from where it was, because I can get Claw + Mighty Blow after 6SPPs. Would be higher in a different team, one that wasn't so good at Blitzing anyway)
Chaos Dwarf Minotaur - 50% (CDs work just fine without the mino)
Human Ogre - 50%
Mummies - 100% (So good people don't think of them as BGs )
Kroxigor - 100% (But despite being almost an auto pick, I think the Lizardman team is fine)
Snow Troll - 100% (Provides something to the team that can't be gotten elsewhere. ST5, AV8 and Claw)
Beast of Nurgle - 100% (I think you'd have to jack the price of the BoN up to 180K before I'd stop thinking of it as an auto pick. Not that it should go that high)
Orc Troll - 100% (Excess to the teams needs but so cheap it shouldn't be passed up on. Too cheap imo.)
Rat Ogre - 100% (Just essential, for similar reasons to the Snow Troll)
Wood Elf Treeman - 100% (I don't need the tree to win, but it does slow long term attrition by about 10%)

[Darkson]

Almost 100% agreement with Fen's list there, apart from the RO, which I'm in the 50/50 camp (but that's mainly because my RO's have always been crap under any BB system - one was in his 12th game before he got his first Cas, and this was when WA was good ).

The fact that trees on a WE is a 100% is a area where the rules went wrong imo, but I'd just houserule out WE trees if I had a LRB5 league.

[kithor2002]

On an Orcteam the last thing I would buy is a BG.(maybe it's due I mad bad experience with that fool )

Same on a skaven team.

[Bizzy]

I tend to agree with Fen's list of Big Guys. The tree on a Wood Elf team is wonderful, very helpful, and just unique to what a player goes into the game thinking he is playing against. Trolls on Orc teams are good and bad at the same time. If you use him as a large moron that stands there and acts tough he is good to use. Try to use as a Black Orc and your in trouble. He adds additional ST to an already huge LOS.

[Storch]

I too think Fen nailed it, but I would add for the Kroxigor that he is 100% after your team can comfortably afford him and you should not run right out and buy one.

Also, I would put the Chaos Dwarf Minotaur at approximately 0%. On ateam that is already starved for rerolls and has dificult access to any of the reroll skills and unpredictable player like the Minotaur just doesn't cut it for me.

As those are the only teams, I play I will letothers comment on the other Big Guys.

[Grumbledook]

The mino on chaos dwarfs was always useful, specially for making space to move a cage throught.

Now however that frenzy isn't a double for the centaurs and they can use rerolls freely maybe not so. I still probably would take one tbh juggernaut and st5 as well is really handy.

[bouncergriim]

I play both Woodies and Lizardmen, I like the big guys, but I hate the unreliability. I think they can be assets to both of these teams, but I do not think they are requirements (100% picks). Of course I have bad luck with BH Take root rolls.

Just to add to this a little, what BGs would you take on your starting line up? i would pick up a Krox or a Tree after enough games but I wouldn't start with one in light of more rerolls at a cheaper price, especially with the lower monies in LRB5.

[kithor2002]

Usually I never start with a BG in my league startup.
For tournaments it's a bit different....

[Jeremiah Kool]

If I´d play Lizardman or Wood Elves in a league I wouldn´t take a BG at the beginning. The only team I would buy one from the start is the Human team because a Ogre is very easy to include and provides something the team lacks.

Of course, in tournaments it´s a different story (depends on TR/TV).

[fen]

I'll start with:

Treeman - To do his job from day one and reduce the number of LoS Casualties I suffer. (but if the league is short in length I'll pass on him)
Beast Of Nurgle - Tentacles, FA, ST5 AV9. Perfect on the LoS.
Orc Troll - Not all the time, but the Orc team is relatively cheap to build.
Rat Ogre - Every time except in short term leagues, I prefer to use the RO to Blitz with and open holes/force my opponent to leave the wings more open. Plus he has Prehensile tail so I can go send him after catcher types.
Mummies
Snow Troll - This one is a 50/50 to start with, depends on the other teams in the league. But he's so good.

I'd never start with a Minotaur, in fact I consider the minotaur to be player #14 in both Chaos and Chaos Dwarf and get him last of all. I prefer the 5 Saurus, 6 Skink Starting line for Lizardmen and I find the Ogre to be non-essenital to a good functioning human team. He's Guard assist #5 as far as I'm concerned.