Sneaky git - Dirty player combo

nerostinto · Post by **nerostinto** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:06 am

Let's say I've skilled my player with sneaky git and dirty player... I'm fouling on AV6, no assists involved... I roll 3 + 3... Armour is broken... but... Is my player sent off? Same problem... My player is skilled with sneaky git only... I have 1 player assisting me fouling while fouled player has none... Rolling 3 + 3 on AV6... Sent off?

Quoting from sneaky git skill description: "... a player... is not ejected for rolling doubles on the armour roll unless the armour roll was successful"

In both cases armour roll ITSELF was not successful...

Any thoughts?

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:35 am

nero.

Assists are declared before the AV roll and count towards the total rolled. So, if you say he is applying the assist, he is applying the assist.

Thus the prone av 6 player has broken AV from the sneay git who fouled with a buddy and rolled 3,3. The roll is both a "7" (after modifications) and "doubles". You have no choice, roll for injury and place the git in the penalty box.

Now, the sneaky git with Dirty Player acting alone is a totally different situation. YOU choose after seeing the dice rolls if you want to aply dirty player or not.

So, if you choose to apply Dirty Player the roll is 7 and av is broken, roll for injury and place the git in the penalty box (as 3,3) is doubles and you are sent off.

If you choose not to apply dirty player, then "no harm no foul". You sneaky git may stay on the pitch and the fouled player is left prone, because gits are not tossed for not breaking armor.

Finally, sneaky gits with Dirty player need to be carefull about how many assists they delcare sometimes. Against av 6 a git with dp might be better off alone than with a friend...

.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:15 am

Mad Jackal wrote:Finally, sneaky gits with Dirty player need to be carefull about how many assists they delcare sometimes. Against av 6 a git with dp might be better off alone than with a friend...

I need correct Mad Jackal on this one. He was fully correct on the player fouling by himself but not on the assists.

A change in LRB 5.0 from LRB 4.0 is that you MUST use all assists for fouling and blocking (they are NOT optional).

So in your first case ... if there was one player that COULD assist ... he MUST assist and the fouler would be ejected.

Galak

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:19 am

Aye. Thanks for that Galak.

I don't knock many players down so fouling them is very few and far between for me hence my ignorance.

I am glad that was changed from LRB though. My apologies for the misinformation.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:13 am

GalakStarscraper wrote:A change in LRB 5.0 from LRB 4.0 is that you MUST use all assists for fouling and blocking (they are NOT optional).

So in your first case ... if there was one player that COULD assist ... he MUST assist and the fouler would be ejected.

Wow! Hadn't seen that one. I've no problem with the assisting of Blocks (can't remember not having assisted if I could), but I'm not to happy with the "must assist fouls".

nerostinto · Post by **nerostinto** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:52 pm

Thanks everybody, everthing's clear to me now...

Mootaz · Post by **Mootaz** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:18 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:A change in LRB 5.0 from LRB 4.0 is that you MUST use all assists for fouling and blocking (they are NOT optional).

Added to list of changes from LRB4 to LRB5

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:57 pm

Darkson wrote:Wow! Hadn't seen that one. I've no problem with the assisting of Blocks (can't remember not having assisted if I could), but I'm not to happy with the "must assist fouls".

But you don't play with this rule set anyway .... so I expect you to not be happy at this point.

Galak

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:01 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:
Darkson wrote:Wow! Hadn't seen that one. I've no problem with the assisting of Blocks (can't remember not having assisted if I could), but I'm not to happy with the "must assist fouls".
But you don't play with this rule set anyway .... so I expect you to not be happy at this point.

Galak

I have to play it in tournaments, and it's knackered half my playbook.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:06 pm

I must be missing something as I don't see a reason not to lend an assist to the fouler.

jaylazer · Post by **jaylazer** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:22 pm

Snew wrote:I must be missing something as I don't see a reason not to lend an assist to the fouler.

Let's say we have a sneaky git with DP hitting AV6.
His roll is the 3,3 from the above example.

If the fouler had an assist then the AV would be broken and the fouler would be sent off. This happens because he has to use the assist.

If there wasn't an assist, the fouler could then choose to not use DP. He wouldn't hurt the player on the ground but he would stay on the pitch to be able to foul another turn.

It gives you an option.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:22 pm

Snew wrote:I must be missing something as I don't see a reason not to lend an assist to the fouler.

The new LRB 5.0 about "must assist" is there specifically because we didn't want Sneaky Git to become a must have skill. We wanted fouling to be part of the game but not overrun it.

Its because of the situation described above Snew:

Same problem... My player is skilled with sneaky git only... I have 1 player assisting me fouling while fouled player has none... Rolling 3 + 3 on AV6... Sent off?

The problem is the assist. Almost all extra modifiers in Blood Bowl are decided to be added the fact because of how skills work. So MANY folks thought that adding in assists for fouls was something that you did only if the Sneaky Git had not rolled doubles. If he rolled doubles and didn't break armour you could then at that point choose to not add the assists.

There was a massive FUMBBL thread on this one of how that made Sneaky Git a must have skill back when LRB 5.0 was still being playtested.

There were two ways to deal with this ... 1) say in the rules that you must declare assists up front and if you don't declare than everyone is assisting ... or 2) just put in a rule that everyone that can assist does and do it for blocking as well to have a consistent rule.

#2 was a lot easier to word and simpler in execution. So #2 was done.

Galak

Lycos · Post by **Lycos** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:23 pm

Galak, I am sorry if I am being lazy here and not reading the rule book but I have another question. (easier if I use a potential scenario).

As you know (you have posted on thread where I discused it) I am using DE's. So..my Sneaky Git/Dirty player line elf goes in on his own to foul a down Dwarf runner. I roll Double 4. I weigh up my odds here because to go thro I need the DP skill and realise that for certain I am going to be sent off and need a 9 on the inj to get the runner off the pitch.... (AV8 and thick skull yes) so thats actually poor odds. Realising the odds... I decide to NOT use DP so dont break armour and therefore I stay on.

Thats not a turnover is it? I mean I rolled a double (so i have been spotted technically) but I haven't been sent off?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:26 pm

Lycos wrote:Thats not a turnover is it? I mean I rolled a double (so i have been spotted technically) but I haven't been sent off?

If you are not sent off ... it is not a turnover.

Galak

Mootaz · Post by **Mootaz** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:52 pm

You are not even spotted as sneaky git says you are spotted on a double only IF YOU BREAK ARMOR, which you did not.