LRB 5,0 Skaven in rather short league

[Fronko]

Hi everyone!

I would like to hear some opinion on my brand new skaven team for a 10-game scheduled vanilla 5.0 league.

I have just finished the first game, a very lucky 6:4 victory over pro elves.

Starting setup was:

- 2 blitzers
- 4 gutter runners
- 6 linemen
- 3 RR
- 20k banked

Now, after the first game, that not only yielded tons of SPPs, but also another 50k for the bank, I have three gutter runners with two TDs each, two of them having rolled a normal skill, one having rolled a double, I was thinking on the following for upgrades:

Big Hand mutation for the double, with Ag4 its a 2+ pick up even in tackle zones, so once I pop the ball loose, it is going to be too easy just zipping in and get the ball out of any scrum.

The two normal rolls, I intend to go fend and wrestle, with latter gutter runner become the guy to go for the ball with dauntless/tackle/stripball (not necessarily that order), while the other guy will rather be developed towards scoring/general survival (sidestep, surefeet, block, something along that way...)

As for purchases, I am definitely going for the apoth first, then pick up a thrower, after that save up for the rat ogre.

Now, rip me apart, please.

[voyagers_uk]

seems fairly well planned out

sorry no ripping here.....


You coudl always go Disturbing presence on the GR instead of Big hand to threaten the thrower, with AG 4 you shouldn't have too many difficulties with the pick up anyway

not sure you'll get to the RO in 10 games if he is not next on the list

[TuernRedvenom]

I wouldn't give wrestle to every GR, max 1. Block is still better in general, wrestle is only better when you want to take down ball carriers which already have block. If you have the ball yourself or are blitzing a blockless ball carrier then block is a lot better. For these reason I'd get a blodge GR before I'd make a wrestle one.
I have serious reservations about on fend on GR's as well. Fend is a really good skill for vulnerable players that will be in the thick of it on the line or slowing down cages. GR will rarely start an opponent's turn next to other players which they'd rather not be next to. GR's are more likely to get blitzed in the open and fend doesn't do as much there besides making your opponent use an extra movement to get next to the GR. If you are putting GR's next to players then you probably want to pin them down in which case you're a lot better off with side step rather then fend to force the dodge.

[Digger Goreman]

Starting setup was:
- 2 blitzers
- 4 gutter runners
- 6 linemen
- 3 RR
- 20k banked

Looks like the starting lineup I took yesterday against Dark Elves, 'cept I only had 4 linerats and switched a linerat for a thrower.... No bank and no FF... and I started with an Apothecary....

Sounds like it worked well for you though....

[Fronko]

Well, the idea was to have one designated gr to hunt for the ball carrier, the one with wrestle was meant to be that guy.

Good point about fend, I may switch that skill.

Another good point about the rat ogre ... well, I`ll just see how things develop. Maybe, I will have too much to worry about replacements anyway.

Sounds like it worked well for you though....

Yeah, it was constant back and forth until in second half I mangaged two lucky turnovers, which decided the game.

Having an elfblitzer and lineelf BHed throughout 1.5 halves did help, too.

[Cramy]

For the two normal rolls, I would get block. Shouldn't take too long for the other coaches in your league to figure-out that having any GR on the field is bad for them, and they'll start to do their best to remove them. Your GRs need to survive.

With block, you increase your chances to stay on the field. With wrestle, you force yourself on the ground, ready to get booted in the head. On the ground is never a good place for GRs to be.

I like to have a couple of GRs get block, side step, then shadowing. Extremely annoying players, worth gold IMO. Get shadowing instead of DT, as again DT will take you to the ground, ready for the boot in the head.

In my experience, if you can keep your GRs on the field for the game, you have an very good chance of winning. If your GRs get taken-out, then your in for a tough game.

I like the idea of Big Hand for the other GR.

Another idea could be Horns, then followed by Block, then Tackle and Strip Ball. This guy could become your turnover specialist. But without the ability to add Dauntless for the 2D block, not sure how much this is worth it.

If your GRs stay healthy, you should be able to get 2-3 skills on each before the end of the season.

And if I may, you should try to develop a 4th GR as a OTS. I don't like to OTS, but I have found that the threat of the OTS causes your opponent to setup their defence for the OTS, which makes it much easier for you to score with your other GRs. And this helps protect your GRs, as the OTS defence is not very good for bashing GRs. I ended-up using my OTS GR as my ball retriever most of the time. With the extra movement, he could cover the whole back-field and more, and he could hand-off to another GR most of the time, so no need for passing.

And if you need the score, or your opponent doesn't setup for the OTS, then you can do the OTS. Drives your opponent nuts. Which is always good.

[Robotorz]

I like to have a couple of GRs get block, side step, then shadowing. Extremely annoying players, worth gold IMO. Get shadowing instead of DT, as again DT will take you to the ground, ready for the boot in the head.

(...)

I like the idea of Big Hand for the other GR.

I have to agree on Block, Side-Step and then Shadowing. But he is playing a short league so there might not be the chance to develop such a player.

So I would definalty aim for a "Big-Hand" GR and a wrestle+strip-ball(or tackle) GR (leap is also nice to get into the cage).

Those 2 GR should be able to open the ball and retrive it on a predictable basis wich is what skaven-teams need imho. The less preasure that is on ur av7 players the less liklie it is that someone bites the dust.

For long-term leagues I had twice good results with 2 GR: Block, Side-STep and Shadowing and then strip ball, tackle or wrestle.

[DoubleSkulls]

The way I'd probably try and develop these is one for blitzing, one for ball retrieval and ultimately two for annoyance.

10 games means no point really planning beyond ~3 skills for each.

Ball retrieval - Big Hand, Leap, Two Heads or Sure Hands
The combos here are pretty straight forward. Anything to help get to the ball and away again and pick up in traffic.
Blitzer - dauntless or horns, plus some of block, tackle, wrestle or strip ball
Annoyance - block, sidestep if you get to 3 then fend, diving tackle & shadowing all are nice.

I never develop GRs as "receivers". MA9, AG4 & dodge is enough. The one turner I'd normally only develop with a natural +MA and then you may as well take it in such a short league. Don't forget using chained pushes for the 1 turner is relatively easy for skavs (especially if you've the Rat Ogre).

[Fronko]

I believe, the important part here is the small number of games in this league. That probably rules out the rat-ogre, as well as it makes planning of big skill combos unnecessary. While the gutter runners MAY reach their third skill, it will probably only apply to another one or two games.

So, big hand is taken for ball retrieval, as well as wrestle for ball-loose-popping (forgive me, oh great god of grammar!), which will probably be followed by dauntless. I guess, I will swap fend for sidestep.

Thanks for all the input, guys, it did give me some new views!

Unless the fourth runner gets MA on his first level-up, I am not going to develop a one-truner.

I am probably going to contradict everything I said here after next game.

[Robotorz]

I am with Ian on this - I developed 2 GR to recivers and usualy even fielded them on defense - they are just too good not to field and regret their talent-choices actualy.