Help… my Dark Elves keep losing!

[Grogmir]

Hi Guys, after my dwarfs reached the final (but lost) in our last league, I thought I would play dark elves for a more high agility approach but my first two games have been a disaster! I’ve lost twice both times to my girlfriends Norse team. Respect needs to be restored so please, please help.

Starting Roster
7 Linemen
3 Blitzers
1 Witchelf
2 ReRolls

(Since bought an apoc)

I blitzer has gone up – I rolled a 64 so gave him the movement. But the rest of the team are all just about to go up.

I was going to take Wrestle and Strip Ball as the skills on this Witch Elf – to make him a brilliant sacker.

For the linemen I will get a splatter of Wrestle and block. Plus of course Dodge.

Fingers crossed I will get someone with improved agility and then the next time I’ll get them leap.

Any doubles I will take guard.

I have planned my team for the future to get two Runners and 1 Assassin and another blitzer, Which should I get 1st?

Currently with my team they all do a lot of different things – therefore I was think about getting the players Pro, What do people think of this?

What do people think of the Dark Elves in general? Are they a slow starter due to their high cost of players? Are they just tough to play with? Any special tactics people use with the running game?

So far I have been coming deep on turn one, Then on turn two running up passing on a quick then running up to hand off for someone to score. This is working ok although in both my games I’ve failed the anything but a 1 hand off! Arrhhh.

I really need to slow down my scoring though as this gives the Norse box far too much time to trundle down the pitch.

As you can see I can’t handle the shame of losing anymore, which isn’t going to be made any easier when she rolled a 66 on her Werewolf! Nooooo.

Cheers for any advice
Grogmir

[dendron]

I wouldn't give wrestle to a witch. For Sure you can extract the ball sometimes but in the next turn there are 130k on the ground that cry: FOUL ME! I would take block to have the witch on their feet...

Dendron

[PubBowler]

I was going to take Wrestle and Strip Ball as the skills on this Witch Elf – to make him a brilliant sacker.

A lot of people think this leaves your witch too open to fouls against AV7 form. Block is probably better. Or Juggernaught (which works nicely with Strip Ball). And she's a she!

I have planned my team for the future to get two Runners and 1 Assassin and another blitzer, Which should I get 1st?

A blitzer is the easiest of these players to use. If you're struggling, start here.

Currently with my team they all do a lot of different things – therefore I was think about getting the players Pro, What do people think of this?

Elf rerolls aren't too dear, nor are your players bad at agility things or have bonehead/bloodlust/dauntless rolls which are the usual reasons to take Pro. They are probably more useful skills.

What do people think of the Dark Elves in general? Are they a slow starter due to their high cost of players? Are they just tough to play with? Any special tactics people use with the running game?

There is a half decent playbook on the Specialist Games area of GW's website but it basicly says a Dark Elf side needs to be flexiable and force the opponent to play in a way they don't want to. And remember you have some of the most mobile hitting power in the game. Use it, often. Pick your targets and frustrate the rest of the opposing side.

Oh and Good Luck against that ST4 Wolf.

[Odium Khan]

Actually, if she is playing a Norse team, they are not called werewolves but ulfwereners (see 2000 pages of discussion on this board for the origin of that positional's name), which means it's ST has just bumped up to ST5!

Yeah, good luck!

Yes, get 4 blitzers before anything else. Then the second witch (one is a target, two is a threat) or an assassin (if you want to maximise your tactical options, some people like the assassin, some people don't; there are some good discussions on here about their pro's and con's as well). When you have 4 blitzers and 2 witch elves, get 4 rerolls (if league cap allows for it).

DE always have a hard time against Norse. In theory they should be able to win the war of attrition that always seems to ensue, with their better armour. But in reality the opposition's block skill, your lack of rerolls and the Norse team's access to more reserves usually turns this the other way around. And the Norse have access to five frenzy players while you have only two WE, so the side-line circus tactic seems a little less attractive.

What can you do then? Well the assassin can help open AV7 sometimes, but he is often too unreliable. Use him as a scare card instead. Everyone with an AV7 team is going to fear him, in case you decide to start using him. Shadowing is a nice skill to have too.

But my best advice is to play a blitzing game, shifting the brunt of the force to different corners of the field by means of 2+ dodging. Don't do it too often though, as 2+ dodges fail about 50% of the time. But this is one thing you can do that the Norse team cannot, so that's got to be useful.

Complement this with the odd offence drive when you suddenly just break open a hole in his line and run 3 blitzers through, spacing them out 2 squares between them, opening up for a passing game (optimally cutting his force in two at the same time). Force the Norse player to adapt to your playing style all the time. That's what the playbook means by forcing your opponent to do things they don't want to do.

There are a bunch of different attack- and defense modes available to the DE side, and you have to decide when to use them against which opponent. The key is to think ahead and be able to shift your playstyle into as many different ways as possible following your opponent's next turn.

[zephard]

Actually, if she is playing a Norse team, they are not called werewolves but ulfwereners (see 2000 pages of discussion on this board for the origin of that positional's name), which means it's ST has just bumped up to ST5!

Is that ST5 a league thing or you know the team personally and that particular Ulfwerener has a ST 5?

LRB says ST 4.

Just curious about that statement.

[Gorbad]

Actually, if she is playing a Norse team, they are not called werewolves but ulfwereners (see 2000 pages of discussion on this board for the origin of that positional's name), which means it's ST has just bumped up to ST5!

Is that ST5 a league thing or you know the team personally and that particular Ulfwerener has a ST 5?

LRB says ST 4.

Just curious about that statement.

she rolled a 66 on her Werewolf!

So basic Ulfwerener ST4 + 1 = ST5.

[zephard]

Thanks Gorbad, totally missed 66 registering as a skill roll.
I checked and it looks like I forgot my brain at home today.
To bad it wasn't my "roll sixes for the other teams guys on the PBeM" button.

Cheers.

[Grogmir]

Hi Guys

Thanks for the advice, Your right the wereolves are Ulfthings but I couldn’t remember the name! And yes hers is now Str 5!

I understand that a downed Witch Elf would be a target but I believe block would be wasted. Most of the Norse team have block anyway, plus block is a popular skill in our league, Most ball carriers have it. Therefore Wrestle would be a good counter acting skill to that.

Plus and I know this sounds weird but fouling is hardly ever used in our league, I don’t know why but it’s true. Certainly I’m going to be fouling away when I get a few more players (Last game I fouled her other Ulfywolfy thing and gave it -1AV) but I’m not overly worried about opponents fouling me.

I think I’m going to have to play a little more strategically in future. By scoring in two turns I am just passing the initive back to them, one big draw back I have against the Norse is that their not much slower than me!

DE always have a hard time against Norse

Well, great. I see its going to be a long hard season.

Cheers for the advice!

[Cramy]

Once you start to foul, your opponent will start to foul too, if they're smart. Give block to the Witch, then Side Step is my preference. Some like Tackle instead ...

This is how I'm developing my DE team. With DE though, there are lots of options available to you. How you develop them largely depends on your play style and what types of teams you will be facing.

I like to give Tackle to a couple of Blitzers, but that depends on the other teams in your league.

Dodge is good on all your players. Once you get that, you will get some advantage against the Norse since you will really be able to outmaneuvre them. IMO, until you get lots of dodge, the games against Norse will be difficult.

Doubles on Blitzer or WE, give one or two of them Mighty Blow.

Strip Ball can be usefull on Blitzers, but that depends on your opponents. If they have Sure Hands or get Sure Hands early in the league, Strip Ball is not that great.

IMO, wrestle goes to a lineelf, maybe with Strip Ball after that. So you have one lino with Wrestle and maybe Strip Ball, and one or two blitzers with Block and Tackle. All threats to the ball carrier.

If your league is long enough, try to get a blitzer with Tackle, Leap and Strip Ball. He's the Wardancer-type player, your expert cage ball extractor.

Another option, block, dodge, sidestep Blitzers. If your opponents don't develop tacklers and you have a couple of these guys, get them to the back-corners of the cage to get your opponent to try to block them. If they do block them, chances are that all they will do is allow you to side-step next to the ball carrier. Then you get a free hit on the ball carrier next turn. See other threads on how to plan/time a cage break with Elves/Skaven.

[datalorex]

I only have a little experience playing DE as I've only been playing for about 6 months, but I think the WE are way overcosted. It's the only character that cost 100 thou or more that has 7 armor. VERY expensive for 7 armor. It cost 20 thou more than Norse Beserker and it's inferior to it. I'd much rather have the Block than Dodge with the Frenzy skill. Frenzy on a STR3 player is near suicidal IMO, but at least the Norse Beserker has Block to make it a little better at using Frenzy.

You would have been better suited to have bought that 4th Blitzer and saved 10 thou. At least you would have had block and AV8.

I like the Assassins myself and started with 2 of them. They are fun to play, and they would MURDER a Norse team. I would first get a Blitzer and then Assassins.

[Omalley69]

hmm i think its your team that lacks...

2 rerolls is WAY to few...

i whould take some what 4+ rerolls, linemen + 1-2 assasins

something like (just a quick proposal):

8 linemen
2 blitzers
1 assasin
3 rerolls
0 ff

100k

that way you can stab all thouse AV 7 men (ALL the norse dudes!)
and still have alot of cool momentum from day one with the rest of your team...

[PubBowler]

It's the only character that cost 100 thou or more that has 7 armor. VERY expensive for 7 armor.

Cough, Wardancer, Cough.

[Snew]

(see 2000 pages of discussion on this board for the origin of that positional's name),

Please note that I've always hated that name.

[Grogmir]

yeah I know the lack of rerolls is hurting me, but and I'll be investing in another ASAP.
I'm convinced that dodge needs to be got asap. I'm still gonna take wrestle on a few linemen and maybe on the WitchElf.

My Blocker got +1MA so I think I'll turn him into an alternative stripper, Block Movement and Tackle then Frenzy, Strip ball on the WElf.


What about scoring, do you hold back, form a cage and just score ASAP.

Regards
Grogmir.

[Cramy]

yeah I know the lack of rerolls is hurting me, but and I'll be investing in another ASAP.
I'm convinced that dodge needs to be got asap. I'm still gonna take wrestle on a few linemen and maybe on the WitchElf.

My Blocker got +1MA so I think I'll turn him into an alternative stripper, Block Movement and Tackle then Frenzy, Strip ball on the WElf.


What about scoring, do you hold back, form a cage and just score ASAP.

Regards
Grogmir.

Depends on what team you play against. The DE's are the Humans of the Elves IMO. To some extent you have to adapt to your opponent's weeknesses. Outbash the weeker teams and take your time to score. Lets face it, you will not win a scoring fest against Skaven or Wood Elves. Outmaneuvre the bashy teams (hence the dodge skill being important). If possible, don't score too quickly, as you don't want them to have too much time left to score.

That's what fun and difficult for a DE coach. There are many options. And if you use different options, it will make it very difficult for your opponent to expect what you are going to do. It works both ways. One drive you bash-away at them. The next drive you outmaneuvre them.