Skills for 3 gutter runners

gonzolo · Post by **gonzolo** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:43 am

After a particularly crazy game (4-4 draw) I find myself with 3 gutter runners looking at 1 skill increase each. They are:

1. Double (already has block)
2. 11 (+1 AG or skill)
3. 3 (normal skill)

Little unsure what to do with it all. I'm leaning towards:

1. Side Step, Leap (waste of the double?), big hand, horns/dauntless... not sure what to do coz might try to turn this one into a leaping strip baller, or go the other way with big hand/side step to just make him better as a scorer?
2. +1 AG
3. Block

Any thought? They're the only 3 GRs in my team at the moment.

IONDragonX · Post by **IONDragonX** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:03 am

1) Extra Arms! Almost like a +1 AG for INTs combined with NoS!
2) AG,AG,AG!!! Make him a leaper!
3) Block or Dauntless if you need to actually blitz with this guy.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:24 am

#2 is +AG for sure.
#3 I'd give block - just because I always give them block 1st.

#1 is the interesting one... I think there are several ways to develop GRs so its a matter of what you want to do with him.

From the normal skills you could get on doubles Nerves of Steel is about the only interesting one.

From the mutations. Big Hand is interesting since it gives a 2+ pick up in any number of tackle zones. However I think I'd consider building the AG5 GR as the ball retriever since he can get leap & dodge to the ball, leap out then pass reliably.

Extra arms is interesting - but since you already catch & pick up on 2's it isn't that powerful. Also I wouldn't take this before Pass Block if you really want to build an interceptor - and catch is actually statistically better anyway and adds 10k less to your cost.

Two heads is nice - run through TZ on 2s is always fun. Once again this sort of parallels the AG5s future development.

You could also ignore the double and just take one of the usual skills (Side step, strip ball, dauntless, shadowing or diving tackle).

rodders · Post by **rodders** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:30 am

for the double either horns to make hi a blitzer or if you want to be really annoying .................. guard. ma9 and guarding blodger to get those assist all over the pitch can be really really annoying

tomlloyd · Post by **tomlloyd** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:56 am

+AG on gutter runners is so good. My last team had two AG5 GRs, they could do some awesome stuff.

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:04 pm

#1 - go for horns. He becomes a lightning quick sacker/safety with the +1 st on a blitz. In fact, he won't even have to blitz very often because the threat of a such a fast blitzer will keep your opponent playing pretty conservatively.

#2 - Take the +1 AG. A gutter with AG 5 is best used as a playmaker in midfield to catch the ball from your backfield and quickly advance to pass/handoff the ball to a downfield player for the easy score. He would be an exceptionally useful part of an efficient two-turn offensive drill.

#3 - If #1 becomes a blitzer and #2 a playmaker, make this gutter your finisher/nuisance runner. Give him sidestep and let him roam the sidelines to score when you have the ball or flank the offence when you're defending. He becomes the player your opponent has to always mark because he can score in a snap if the ball comes loose.

Specialized gutter runners are somewhat like War Dancers in that half their usefulness comes from scaring the crap out of your opponent and forcing him to play too slow or make mistakes with the ball.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:06 pm

I agree with Ian for all 3. His advice is solid here.

fen · Post by **fen** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:40 pm

One route which hasn't been suggested yet, so I'll put it out there.

Mighty Blow.

Then you go Block, Dauntless, Tackle and grab Claw on a second Doubles. To start with you can use him for hunting down opposing catchers. Later on you can use him against Ball Carriers and if you get another Doubles or two then you can grab Claw and maybe even horns. Which just makes him a terror for absolutely anything to face. It's not as broken as the old Block, Claw, RSC, Horns, Dauntless Gutter Runners of LRB4, but it's still fun.

I'd rate horns higher if it still comboed with Dauntless they way it used to.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:16 am

fen wrote:One route which hasn't been suggested yet, so I'll put it out there.

Mighty Blow.

Then you go Block, Dauntless, Tackle and grab Claw on a second Doubles. To start with you can use him for hunting down opposing catchers. Later on you can use him against Ball Carriers and if you get another Doubles or two then you can grab Claw and maybe even horns. Which just makes him a terror for absolutely anything to face. It's not as broken as the old Block, Claw, RSC, Horns, Dauntless Gutter Runners of LRB4, but it's still fun.

I'd rate horns higher if it still comboed with Dauntless they way it used to.

You guys have a lot more experience than I do, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why on earth you would want horns or MB on a ST2 character. Dauntless I get though (after Block of course).

Here's what I'd do.
1. NOS or Two Heads
2. Agility
3. Block or Sprint

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:00 am

MB is interesting, novel, but not sure it's a good idea.

As for Horns, you blitz with the GR, and you are guaranteed ST3 for the blitz. With an assist, it's two dice you chose on a ST3 ball carrier. Why use the GR for that? You have an AG4, Dodge, MV9 and Block (block must be the next skill) blitzer. This guy can blitz pretty much anybody on the pitch. Once he has Horns and Block, develop him in different ways depending on your league: Strip Ball, Tackle ...

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:47 am

Cramy wrote:MB is interesting, novel, but not sure it's a good idea.

As for Horns, you blitz with the GR, and you are guaranteed ST3 for the blitz. With an assist, it's two dice you chose on a ST3 ball carrier. Why use the GR for that? You have an AG4, Dodge, MV9 and Block (block must be the next skill) blitzer. This guy can blitz pretty much anybody on the pitch. Once he has Horns and Block, develop him in different ways depending on your league: Strip Ball, Tackle ...

OR... give the GR an actual useful skill, bring the GR in to BE the assist, and hit the opponent with a 2 die block with the character that is already there, saving your blitz for some other play.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:46 am

rodders wrote:guard. ma9 and guarding blodger to get those assist all over the pitch can be really really annoying

Do you really want to leave you GR next to someone? By giving them guard that is what you are doing.

fen · Post by **fen** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:38 am

Cramy wrote:MB is interesting, novel, but not sure it's a good idea.

A lot of people thought having Claw/RSC Gutter Runner Blitzers was a bad idea originally. Oh boy they were wrong. Trust me a Block, Dauntless, Claw, Mighty Blow, Tackle Gutter Runner is one of the most destructive items in the game. Especially when it can always get an assist on it's blitzes thanks to either Storm Vermin/Rat Ogre Guard skills or other Gutter Runners.

Horns is pretty pointless when Dauntless is so good for ST2 vs ST3 and it allows you to hit ST4+ Players if you desire.

Kheldar · Post by **Kheldar** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:30 am

datalorex wrote:
Cramy wrote:MB is interesting, novel, but not sure it's a good idea.

As for Horns, you blitz with the GR, and you are guaranteed ST3 for the blitz. With an assist, it's two dice you chose on a ST3 ball carrier. Why use the GR for that? You have an AG4, Dodge, MV9 and Block (block must be the next skill) blitzer. This guy can blitz pretty much anybody on the pitch. Once he has Horns and Block, develop him in different ways depending on your league: Strip Ball, Tackle ...
OR... give the GR an actual useful skill, bring the GR in to BE the assist, and hit the opponent with a 2 die block with the character that is already there, saving your blitz for some other play.

The gutter runner is the best blitzer in the skaven team. He is fast, agile. He is just lacking some puch. He allready has block, so give him the Mighty blow. Next skill is dauntless (horns if double), and he rules the backfield. GR dont need skills to score, the are good at this from the beginning.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:05 am

TBH I wouldn't take MB on a GR unless they already had Block/Dauntless etc. IMO you are paying 30k for a skill you won't use for several games.

Under the old rules Dauntless/Horns GRs were some of the best blitzers possible. Now they aren't as good because Dauntless isn't as good & doesn't stack as effectively with Horns. So I reckon the development on doubles is better aimed at ball recovery or to improve their general performance (Two Heads/Extra Arms).