Rooted trees and juggernaut

[Aliboon]

Can a Treeman who's taken root declare a blitz action and use the juggernaut skill to prevent a turnover from a both down, even though they can't move?

From just reading the rules I'd say yes as from my take on it, a player with juggernaut could use his blitz to get free of an adjacent player by blocking him out the way and then moving on, without necessarily having followed up. Obviously a rooted tree can't do this.

But from a common sense perspective, it's a nonsense.

Does the rule need a qualifier like Horns (i.e. must move a space first to use it) or was it intended to be the case that a juggernaut could free himself up as part of the blitz and a rooted tree is just the exception that proves the rule?

[Mad Jackal]

A tree man who has taken root has ZERO movement. Blitzing requires a point of movement to throw the block.

So, as far as I can tell the tree can not blitz. But I'll have to re-read the rules to verify my answer.

-edit to add. Players who have taken root may not go for it- see bolded below.
[quote="LRB"]Take Root (Extraordinary)
Immediately after declaring an Action with this player, roll a D6. On a 2 or
more, the player may take his Action as normal. On a 1, the player “takes
rootâ€

[fen]

Juggernaut (Strength)
A player with this skill is virtually impossible to stop once he is in motion. If this player takes a Blitz Action, then opposing players may not use their Fend, Stand Firm or Wrestle skills against blocks, and he may choose to treat a ‘Both Down’ result as if a ‘Pushed’ result has been rolled instead.

There's no run up needed for Juggernaut.

As for the actual question, this is one I don't know. I shall disect the rulebook and see if it holds the answer.

BLITZ MOVES p. 9
Once per turn a player on the moving team is allowed to make a special Blitz move. A blitz allows the player to move and make a block. The block may be made at any point during the move, but costs one square of movement for the player to make. The player may carry on moving after the effects of the block have been worked out if he has any squares of movement left.

Cut From Take Root text p. 48
...on a 1, the player “takes rootâ€

[Bonehead]

I'm with Mad Jackal ruleswise but I would allow a blitz to be used to use juggernaut.

[Aliboon]

Ok, that makes sense. A block as part of a blitz action takes a square of MA which the Tree doesn't have, so he can't do it.

(I do know that juggernaut was specifically required to take a square first like horns on purpose.)

Eh!?, Where does it say that? Not in the LRB5 i've downloaded, unless i've gotten selective blindness as well as deafness! Or was that part of the LRB5 development ruleset?

[Mad Jackal]

I'm with Mad Jackal ruleswise but I would allow a blitz to be used to use juggernaut.

Thanks fen. I edited that line a few times and missed that I erased the "not". I've put it back.

and while I was digging up my answer and editing the post to put that in, you answered.

I dis-agree. Trees are too good on Wood Elf teams right now. Allowing them to use Juggernaut to blitz from rooted would be too much benefit I fear. That is what grab is for.

[Aliboon]

Ooops, disregard the 2nd bit of my last post, was composing it before the edit.....

[Father911]

Ok, that makes sense. A block as part of a blitz action takes a square of MA which the Tree doesn't have, so he can't do it.

(I do know that juggernaut was specifically required to take a square first like horns on purpose.)

Eh!?, Where does it say that? Not in the LRB5 i've downloaded, unless i've gotten selective blindness as well as deafness! Or was that part of the LRB5 development ruleset?

You are correct, Juggernaut does NOT require a square to be moved first as horns does. It just requires a blitz action (and as has been mentioned a point of movement for the block).

[Mad Jackal]

Ooops, disregard the 2nd bit of my last post, was composing it before the edit.....

looks like we all were. My mistake. I had secifically asked Galak back during the discussion of including juggernaut into the rules "Why doesn't it require a square to be taken first like Horns?" and I don't recall the exact reason, (something to do with the extra restriction being un-neccesary clutter) - but it had been discussed and discarded.

[Aliboon]

Thanks all, not sure how often the situation would come up, but as I never roll doubles for my Big Guys and always seem to roll both down/skulls with them I thought juggernaut would be a good skill to stop the turnovers.

And I can see there being times when I could've "wasted" the blitz on a rooted tree just to prevent a possible turn over. But as its all been explained, that aint the case.

[sann0638]

So the description is slightly odd - impossible to stop "once he is in motion".

[zephard]

Well the motion starts with the nostrels and continues from there, so he doesn't have to take a step to start the motion.

[GalakStarscraper]

Well the motion starts with the nostrels and continues from there, so he doesn't have to take a step to start the motion.

There you go ...

Galak

[kano]

I may be mistaken on this, but in LRB4 i think you used to be able to block with the trees if there was someone in his TZ, even though he was "rooted". Did the skill change in this regard, or were we misunderstanding the rule the whole time?????

[Xeterog]

you can block if someone is in you TZ..but you can't spend any movement..so no blitzing while Rooted (because the block during a blitz takes 1 square of movement)