Frenzy and "Double Down"... huh?!

[Meradanis]

You're never forced to use a skill, unless written otherwise in the skill description.

4. Skill use is not mandatory.

[...]and he may choose to treat a ‘Both Down’ result as if a ‘Pushed’ result has been rolled instead.

Edit: Too slow for darkson.

[jkarr]

And remember you are allowed to Go For It to get the next block if movement ran out.

You do not have a choice to GFI for a frenzied block. You MUST go for it if you need to for the second block.

[Digger Goreman]

Right, which sets up interesting choices once you have 'block'....

One of the worst things bout Frenzy is getting in over your head... you hit that two dice block and get a push into a 2d their choice 2nd block

Now, with block, you could chose "double-down" and not throw the 2nd, ill-advised block... by the same, two-edged, situation you could not ELECT to throw the second block if you MUST or CHOOSE TO "double-down"....

hmmmmmmmm.....

[wesleytj]

All it means is you have to plan out the Frenzy a little before you do it. It's still much easier than it used to be. Frenzy is only one extra block now.

[voyagers_uk]

don't forget to factor in Wrestle, it makes getting Juggernaut even more of a must for a frenzier who is carrying the ball.

[Little_Rat]

But Stand Firm cancles frenzy too: If you use Stand Firm, you ignore the pushed back result, so you can´t throw another block ^^

[Old Man Draco]

Wrong, the dice show a pushback result. The fact that the Stand Firm player cannot be pushed has nothing to do with it. So you must use frenzy against Stand Firm if blocking/blitzing with a frenzy player.

[Grumbledook]

so what happens when you change the both down to a pushback vs a stand firm player?

the dice still shows bothdown and the player hasn't been pushed back

[Little_Rat]

It isn´t so easy ^^ before throwing the second block, the first one has to be finished completely. So first you change the dice to push back, then the stand firm cancles it... and then no block ^^ That would be correct if you ask me, but I would be glad as hell if it would be different (playing Norse and Skaven with frenzy Skaven Blitzer...)

[GalakStarscraper]

so what happens when you change the both down to a pushback vs a stand firm player?

the dice still shows bothdown and the player hasn't been pushed back

Using Juggernaut to change the dice roll is treated as if that is what you rolled.

So Juggernaut/Frenzy player blitzing vs Stand Firm (let's say they are both ST 3).

1) Roll Both Down (Pow/Skull)
2) Use Juggernaut to change the result to be as if you had rolled Pushed
3) Stand Firm doesn't allow pushback
4) Frenzy skill kicks and checks for you rolled for the block result
5) Due to Juggernaut ... you rolled a Pushed result
6) Since its a Pushed result, Frenzy requires you roll for the 2nd block unless you have already used both GFIs for the blitzing player.

That's the sequence.

Galak

[reservoirelves]

3) Stand Firm doesn't allow pushback

3b) Opponent can't use Stand Firm when you use Juggernaut, so you can push him.

[Grumbledook]

good point res ;]

that negates the question entirely!

[Little_Rat]

Hm, I think you are right. That would be a hell of a league for me this time :>

[Mad Jackal]

3) Stand Firm doesn't allow pushback

3b) Opponent can't use Stand Firm when you use Juggernaut, so you can push him.

If you used juggernaut to make it pushes, then you MUST push him.

( I'm sure you knew that, but "can push him" sounds slightly permissive and thus sounds like an option, so I thought I'd post to clalify... )

[reservoirelves]

Can you choose to use Juggernaut to change the both down result, but choose not use it to negate Stand Firm?