How many Cheerleaders and Assistants do you need?

[PubBowler]

Ok, long term league. Money not an issue. Other teams also investing in backroom staff.

How many of these add ons would you actually want to have?
How much is the extra reroll or reroll denial worth to you?

This is a general question but my motivation is trying to consolidate my own model collection. Thus answers aimed at Dwarf, Orc, Human, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, Undead, Necromantic and Halfings will be even more greatly appreciated.

Oh personally I think around 5. Less for Dwarf sides due to their low reroll cost and more for halfing as they need reroll denial to be competitive.

Any thoughts...

[voyagers_uk]

1 more than my nearest rival..... that should do it

I am uncertain of actual numbers in terms of size.

[da_crusher]

For the actual odds when getting those AC and CL look in this thread:

http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB2/vie ... sc&start=0

You basically want more CL or AC's than your opponent. If you both have the same number they don't matter at all.

[Snew]

Get 3 more than you need. I'm thinking 10 should do it. Maybe 13 just because that number looks good. Buy only linemen if you have to but don't stop till you have at least 15 Cheerleaders and 18 ACs. And an Apo. Don't forget to buy NO FF. Deny your opponents as much as you can but remember. It's 21 Cheerleaders and 25 ACs. MINIMUM!

[Little_Rat]

I have 4 Cheerleader and 0 Assistant Coaches. I am the only one using Cheerleader, so Cheering Fans gets me the Reroll (and prevents the enemy to get it... thats the point). Assistant Coaches... we have one special rule, you can demote any player to become Assistant Coaches, so everyone puts their badly injured players into this position. But my season were... nice, i didn´t get one niggling injury so far... oh well, so I lose brilliant coaching every time. Doesn´t Matter, eh?

[Warpstone]

No more than 2 of each. The problem is not the money you need to spend but rather how much inducement money you give up to overdog/underdog opponents. If someone has 5 CL for example, in a sense that basically subsidizes another card or half a bribe for me to use against them.

[datalorex]

No more than 2 of each. The problem is not the money you need to spend but rather how much inducement money you give up to overdog/underdog opponents. If someone has 5 CL for example, in a sense that basically subsidizes another card or half a bribe for me to use against them.

I agree. 2 at most.

[wesleytj]

Well it depends. If every other team in the league has 2 of each, then your two do nothing but bring parity.

A question like this can only be answered in relation to your opponents. If nobody else in the league has AC or CL, then sure, 2 should be plenty in most occasions. They have what us screwball economists would call a diminishing return, each one you buy has less effect than the one before. But again, only in relation to your opponent.

Another thing to consider is that if you have a comparatively low FF, and you're often giving your opponent +1 fame, you might consider one more AC and or CL to help compensate for that.

[PubBowler]

First off, Snew's answer was great. And I'm happy to play that team anytime he's free.

But to business:

Well it depends. If every other team in the league has 2 of each, then your two do nothing but bring parity.

A question like this can only be answered in relation to your opponents.

I started thinking like this. But then I thought, so what if I and my opponent have 10 CL each. We don't have any advantage over each other but we have 100k tied up in staff. So even thought you'd automatically lose the cheering fans you'd be better off firing them all and taking the inducement.

So, I disagree (as respectively as I can), but I think there is an absolute number that is worth spending on the kick off event. I just don't know what it is...

P.S. I had seen the previous discussion but the theme was slightly different although this post by sithis is of interest:

You need to consider the gain from the base value when calculating this. Without anyone buying at all you have a 66% chance to get a re-roll. If you consider your opponent getting a re-roll to be as bad as you getting a re-roll is good then you should also add in the value of denying your opponent one (and ties become a neutral result).

Code:
Value of AC or CL per kickoff relative to re-roll cost.

 RR  |          Relative AC/CL
Cost |  -2    -1     0    +1    +2    +3
-----+------------------------------------
 40  |  0.3   0.9   1.5   1.5   0.9   0.3
 50  |  0.4   1.2   1.9   1.9   1.2   0.4
 60  |  0.5   1.4   2.3   2.3   1.4   0.5
 70  |  0.5   1.6   2.7   2.7   1.6   0.5

AC and CL are an arms race like FF, so you have to judge what your opponents will likely have and how many drives you expect. This chart also IGNORES FAME, so if you expect to win FAME then shift the relative chart downward and if you expect to lose, shift it upward.

This chart also assumes you are only buying one AC at a time (the value for +2 is based on the difference between +1 and +2, not +2 and 0). If you're starting a team with 70k rerolls and don't expect anyone to have any ACs, then 1 AC is worth 2.7k per kickoff. If you expect ~3.7 kickoffs per game then getting that +1 advantage is worth the 10k. However, as you look higher you need to add the values together and expect a greater payout. Buying 2 ACs is worth 4.3k per kickoff, but you've now spent 20k, so you need to expect around 4.6 total kickoffs to get a payoff.

4 kickoffs per game can probably be expected (assuming at least 1 touchdown per half), but beyond that it gets questionable. Generally only the teams with higher cost re-rolls will want to buy ACs/CLs, and then primarily to keep the difference in that +0/+1 range.

[Grumbledook]

i wouldn't say ties are nutral, the fact the other coach gets denied that reroll even if you don't need it can often be a gamebreaker

[datalorex]

Also, at some point, it's worth just buying a RR instead of "hoping" to win it through the kick off table. Of course, you are also trying to prevent your opponent from getting another one too, so that factors into it, but if you have more than 3, you are really wasting your money. And even at 3 I think you are wasting it too.

[Warpstone]

To be honest, the only reason I buy CL and AC is for reroll denial alone. I'm ambivalent about winning the rerolls, but am concerned that my opponent would earn a free one after I worked so hard to force him to burn his quickly.

[zephard]

Rerolls, who needs them? Thats just TV.
Support staff, don't need any if you play without rerolls.
Of course forcing your oppenent to use his fast, would tend to make one think its a good thing to deny the said opposing coach from getting any more of them.

Sure one doesn't need RR if he is already use to not having any.

______________________________________________
Don't listen to him, he is insane.

[Warpstone]

Sure one doesn't need RR if he is already use to not having any.

Spoken like a true BB masochist.

[Meradanis]

If it is a long term league and money doesn't matter, why bother with assistant coaches and cheerleaders ? Simply buy something like 6-8 Re-Rolls, and you won't need them any more.

In our league, I'm having two of both. But then again, money does matter for my team.