Helpâ€¦ my Dark Elves keep losing!

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:29 pm

That is a great player...shame you gave him Sprint though, there are so many better skills for him than that.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:40 pm

agree, never a first skill that one.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:10 pm

Sorry fella for dragging this topic out a bit longer. Thought I could ask for some advice for my DE team too.

Just a bit of background. My brothers and a couple of mates have started playing BB again recently after about 10yrs. I thought I would go for my old DE team again. However after reading a couple of elven team tactics articles I thought I would start the league with 12 linemen, apothecary and 2 rerolls (was I mad/stupid?) - 2 rerolls first as it would be expensive later and 12 linemen because of the cost and that they are reasonably flexible players with apothecary for league survivability.

Essentially after 9 games I have once beaten undead and drawn against orc and undead. I have been whooped by my little bro's pro elves. Not a great run of games. I have been unlucky at times but to be honest it is mainly because I have 'brain-farts'.

My style initially was dodge away from contact and choose where I hit (the wimps way?). But now I have brought a few more players I do a bit more hitting now. Can you please give me some advice for the future and whether I was stupid starting off with 12 linemen.

My team currently is:

Lineman:
Lineman: Dodge, Block (punching holes in opposition)
Runner: Dump-off (ball carrier before choosing to pass to options down field)
Lineman:
Lineman:
Lineman: Leader
Lineman: AG5, Dodge (my 'catcher', leap next?)
Lineman: AG5, Dodge (another catcher but maybe pass block next for interceptor role?)
Lineman: Dodge
Lineman: Kick (as other teams in league have it and it is very frustrating!)
Lineman:
Lineman:
Witch Elf: Dodge, Frenzy, Jump-up, Block (fullback/punching holes in opposition, pushing fellas off the pitch)
Assassin: Shadowing, Stab, Multiple Block (take out big guys when recieving , take out/spoil ball carrier defence)
Blitzer: Block (recent purchase)
2 rerolls
4 FF
1 Apothecary

ANy help?

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:46 am

I never would have taken Leader on a lineman. You should have taken guard! Skill up a runner if you wanted leader. But obviously, you can't change that now.

Now you have 15 player (how you don't have injuries is beyond me!), but very few abilities. The AG 5 is nice, but that doesn't make him much better at catching. Afterall, AG4 or AG5 both catch accurate passes on 2+. This AG5 just makes him more likely to catch the ball in traffic and dodge. But don't think you have to use them as the dedicated catcher. The threat is that ALL of them can easily catch balls.

Kudos on the Multi Blocking Assassin. It's every DE coaches dream! Just make sure you keep a lot of linemen around him so he won't become an easy target. Also, make sure you have a backup plan if your Assassins don't come through for you. Get dodge or jump up on the Assassin next to keep him up more and make it easier to get around.

Take Pass on your runner when he skills up (should happen pretty fast) because you don't have enough RR.

More Kudos on getting block on the Witch Elf. I wouldn't take them unless I already had 2 runners and 2 assassins, but that's me. Don't get another W.E. until you get another runner at least. A second Assassin is up to you. If you have a lot of 7-8 armor teams, then take another Assassin. If you have lots of 9AV guys in your league, then don't take another Assassin.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:19 pm

Thank you, I've learnt a fair bit there.

I have been quite lucky with injuries, with the exception of a death early on.

Anyone else with another point of view. Any and all advice will be welcome.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:05 pm

Yeah, it's too late now of course, but for a starting line up I would have suggested

4 blitzers 400
7 line elves 490
2 rerolls 100
1 ff 10

Your way will work in the long term, but to be your size and still only have one blitzer will make it a little tougher to play a hitting style. I would concentrate heavily on making those your future purchases.

As for the skills, the datalorex is right about taking guard over leader; live and learn. Also it sounds like you're relying pretty heavily on your assassin, and that can be a tricky way to play. The assassin is a specialist, good against low armor opponents with block and dodge. He won't work against orcs or anybody with decent armor. Having Multiblock is nice, but he's still pretty fragile. As data said, you want to get him Dodge next, but Side Step after that. It will help more than Jump Up.

The AG 5 line elves are indeed nice, and yes you probably want to give them Leap next to maximize their effectiveness. Don't count on Pass Block, even at AG5, it won't work as much as you expect.

Even though she only has one skill, the Witch elf is the star of your team. She's the only player you have right now with any real hitting power, since you started with no Blitzers. Protect her and build her up. Good skills for her include Dauntless and Tackle. On Doubles, consider Mighty Blow or Juggernaut.

That's what I can think of off hand. Hope that helps.

Da_Great_MC · Post by **Da_Great_MC** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:12 pm

Don't give Leap to AG5 & Dodge players. They don't need to leap since they can move just as easily. Give Block or Wrestle.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:23 am

wesleytj wrote: As for the skills, the datalorex is right about taking guard over leader; live and learn. Also it sounds like you're relying pretty heavily on your assassin, and that can be a tricky way to play. The assassin is a specialist, good against low armor opponents with block and dodge. He won't work against orcs or anybody with decent armor. Having Multiblock is nice, but he's still pretty fragile. As data said, you want to get him Dodge next, but Side Step after that. It will help more than Jump Up.

I would take Dodge too, but don't underestimate Jump Up. Being able to get back on your feet and stab someone is important! It saves your blitz for someone else!

TalonBay · Post by **TalonBay** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:40 am

Da_Great_MC wrote:Don't give Leap to AG5 & Dodge players. They don't need to leap since they can move just as easily. Give Block or Wrestle.

nononononono, this contrasts greatly with my experience. AG5 + leap is very different to AG5 + dodge. Leaping into cages (ie multiple tackle zones) on a 2+ is different to dodging into the same space on a much higher target number.

My next skill for a AG5 player is almost always Leap (not including passers) as it opens up several extra options on offense and defense.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:07 pm

datalorex wrote: I would take Dodge too, but don't underestimate Jump Up. Being able to get back on your feet and stab someone is important! It saves your blitz for someone else!

I'm not saying Jump Up isn't good...my Witch elves love it too. But with AV7, if you go down, you often aren't getting right back up anyway. With Side Step, the idea is that when you can control where you're getting pushed, you can keep yourself out of potentially bad situations (step AWAY from the Beast of Nurgle), and get yourself IN to potentially good ones (stay near the AV7 catcher for a stab next turn) Especially in conjunction with shadow. Plus just having the skill makes people nervous about hitting you in the first place. It annoys people to not be in control of where you go during their turn.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:08 pm

Totally agree as I am sure Wesley will.... Leap and AG5 i a godsend to getting into and out of tight spaces - eg Jordell Freshbreeze makes it look easy.

Sounds like your league has only one team likely to pass the ball so Pass Block may not be the best choice. Leap followed by Fend may be better.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:09 pm

Da_Great_MC wrote:Don't give Leap to AG5 & Dodge players. They don't need to leap since they can move just as easily. Give Block or Wrestle.

Totally disagree. Leap is the best reason to have AG5. If I have a guy with AG5 and without Leap, he just feels incomplete. It makes things VERY difficult for opponents, as this player can go pretty much anywhere on the board.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:10 pm

I knew it

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:11 pm

Hehehe posting at the same time.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:25 pm

just to thread-jack slightly

I mentioned that I was thinking of starting a wood elf team up, well I have gone with

9 Line
1 Catcher
1 WD
3 rerolls
10k banked

My first match is up against a legacy human team (legacy in that it is very old - just not played with recently)

His roster is

Thrower1 - Accurate, HMP, Block, Strong Arm (one Niggle)
Thrower2 - Block, Strong Arm
Catcher - +1AG, Sprint, Leap
Blitzer1 - Dodge, Stand Firm
Blitzer2 - Dodge, Mighty Blow, Dirty Player, Leader, Stand Firm +1AV
Ogre - Block
4 linemen (1 Block, 1 Block/tackle, 1 Block/Dodge, 1 Block/Strip Ball/Frenzy/Stab/secret weapon[he has a poison dagger left over from 3ed]
and a journeyman lino.

Now I challenged him, as the TV difference is 1.03m and he has potentially only 10 men nafter the first drive.

I need critique on my choices of inducements

Halfling Chef
2 merc Catchers with Block
Jordell
Wizard - to lightning bolt someone or firebolt the Ogre and any collateral damage .....