Skaven 1.1 mil Tourney Team

Zoglug · Post by **Zoglug** » Thu May 10, 2007 11:14 pm

Well, after playing about with them on fumbbl, im really starting to like the skaven team. Im going to be buying a skaven team no matter what, and will probably take it to Game 07 if i buy a team quick enough. So heres what im thinking:

3 Re Rolls - 180k
2 Throwers - 140k
4 Gutter Runners - 320k
2 Blitzers - 180k
5 Linerats - 250k
1 FF - 1 AC - 1 CL

13 players on the roster, something ive realised i need through playing with them. However, I tend to use one of my gutters to handle the ball from kick offs, ag 4 is great for it, so its sort of making me believe that 2 throwers arent needed. The problem starts with the skills. We can have as follows:

Before the first game: A normally accessible skill may be given to two players on their team.
Before game 2 a normally accessible skill may be given to one player.
Before game 3 One player may receive a skill as if they received a doubles roll or Two players may be given a normally accessible skill.
Before game 4 a normally accessible skill may be given to two players.
Before game 5 One player may receive a skill as if they received a doubles roll or Two players may be given a normally accessible skill.
Before game 6 a normally accessible skill may be given to two player
A skill may NOT be given to a player that has already received a skill this tournament.
These skills carry over throughout the entire tournament and do not reset with the team after each game.

So for the first game im thinking block for 2 gutters, give them a little survivability.

After that im unsure, its been recomended to stick wrestle on some linerats, fend on a gutter who be deep catching. I was also maybe thinking of leap for one of the gutters just so i can try for a 1 turn touch down if needs be. Would people agree with this? Or is there something different you would take instead?

Any advice would be great.

Cheers

Zog

Meradanis · Post by **Meradanis** » Fri May 11, 2007 12:14 am

Throwers on a Skaven team are much debated. Some people prefer to do all the ball handling with their Gutter Runners. I do use the Throwers and like them very much, because they're basicly linerats with 2 extra skills for only 20k.

Personally, I'd give Leader to one of the Throwers and Kick to one of the Linerats. Kick is a must have for a fast running team like Skaven or Wood Elves, because it does give you much more game control. Block for every GR would be nice, eventually go for Strip Ball for one of them instead. Guard for those Storm Vermins is a no brainer. For those last games, I'd take Tackle for one Linerats and Wrestle for the rest. A Thrower with Block would be a great help against any Strip Ball Wardancers.

Little_Rat · Post by **Little_Rat** » Fri May 11, 2007 7:15 am

I prefer to play with no thrower, for me itÂ´s some kind of relay race, put three Gutter deep into the enemy half, then handoff the ball to the one who, somehow, survived and could run into the enemy touchdown zone ^^ So itÂ´s very important to give two or three of your gutters block very fast, then Guard for the Blockers, sure hands for another gutter, then... well, the usual things...

by the way, I would trade the two thrower, cl and ac for a Rat Ogre, its way more easier to break through with one of those.

barnsleybowl · Post by **barnsleybowl** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:11 am

13 players is a nice luxury but what if you are playing against a similarly low AV team. As Skaven you can outscore your opponent even when they have a numerical advantage so keeping 11 players on the pitch is not essential.

Your biggest problem is defence and more specifically breaking in to your opponents cage. In short, you need a frenzied Rat Ogre to get in to the cage and place a prehensile tailed TZ on the ball carrier. Average agility teams will find this difficult, particularly when you swamp the cage with Linerats and Blitzers to ensure your opponent has to throw a half dice block against your Rat Ogre. Guard and Break Tackle are obvious choices on your Rat Ogre to make him even more effective at cage breaking.

My team would be

5 Linerats
4 Gutter Runners
2 Blitzers
1 Rat Ogre
3 RR

I wouldnt play with a Thrower in a tournament either. But in a league where you TV management is important it does make sense to (eventually) trade in two Linerats for two Throwers therefore getting two skills (Sure Hands, Pass) for 20K.

Zoglug · Post by **Zoglug** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:52 am

Before game 1 - Gutter with block & Rat Ogre with Guard

Before game 2 - Linerat with kick

Before game 3 - Blitzer with guard (to help the gutters who advance deep) Gutter with block.

Before game 4 - Linerat with wrestle & Gutter with fend

Before game 5 - Linerat with wrestle & ???

Before game 6 - ???

Would this be a good start for skills on a skaven team???

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Fri May 11, 2007 3:48 pm

Strip Ball on a runner first, then kick on a linerat. These are the 2 must have skills for skaven so get them from the start!

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Fri May 11, 2007 4:48 pm

I for one don't like to rely on the Rat Ogre. Tried it, and he became a big liability. Skilled coaches will put fodder on him to avoid him blitzing your cage. Especially at a resurection tourney, all linemen are fodder.

I've had more success with a Blizter with Horns. With block and horns, you are guaranteed to put a hole in the defence when blitzing.

And on defence, this guy was very good at slowing-down my opponent's cage. Blitz a corner of the cage, then move out of the way. Drove my opponents nuts. Your problem is that you can only give Horns to a Blitzer after the second game. Couple this with one or two GRs with Block and SideStep to put in the TZ of the ball carrier. Once the corner of the cage is out of the way, but a blodging, Side Step GR on the ball carrier, in no tackle zones. (Just reread your first post, and you can't give block and side step to a GR, that's too bad). This forces your opponent to blitz the GR. Obviously, you want to time this maneuvre, as you GR may get beaten-up to death. But this is a resurection tourney, so he's coming back for next game. You can afford to be way more agressive with these guys. This works well against bashy teams, but not as much against agility teams.

I agree with Tuern for the first couple of skills. Block vs. Strip Ball as the first skill on a GR depends on the type of opponents you think you will meet. And if you don't have too many skills plans for your Blitzers, give kick to a Blitzer. They survive longer, so you have more chances of having your blitzer still alive at the end of the game. But if you have plans for other skills for them, kick will go to a linerat.

So I'd pick a roster without a Rat Ogre, with 4 GRs, and with 3 RRs.

Before 1st game: Give kick to a linerat. Give Strip Ball to a GR.
Before 2nd game: Give Block to a GR
Before 3rd game: Give Horns to a Blitzer
Before 4th game: Give Side Step to a GR
Before 5th game: Give Tackle to a Blitzer and ???, if you think that you'll be playing more dodgy teams. Give Big Hand to a GR if you will be playing more bashy teams.
Before 6th game: Give Block to a GR (if you still can). Otherwise, not sure.

Don't be shy of doing two dice against blocks if you have RRs, towards the end of the game. The GRs will come back next game. So go all out to stop the score.

Meradanis · Post by **Meradanis** » Fri May 11, 2007 5:03 pm

I'd never go for horns on a Storm Vermin if I had to forfeit 2 normal skill rolls to get it. Two normals skills are far better than only one mutation. Horns are a nice thing to have, but Guard will do the job most of the time.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Sat May 12, 2007 9:13 am

Meradanis wrote:I'd never go for horns on a Storm Vermin if I had to forfeit 2 normal skill rolls to get it. Two normals skills are far better than only one mutation. Horns are a nice thing to have, but Guard will do the job most of the time.

Yeah horns are nice but definately not worth 2 skills.

Personally I love the Rat Ogre, but you have to know how to use it. People pinning it with linemen isn't much of a problem if you play it right and keep a linerat by its side to push those away. If you don't have much experience a rat ogre it will do more harm then good, if you know what you're doing he rules!
I have been quite succesfull at tourneys with my skaven (wdl: 13-4-2) and for me the Rat Ogre is essential!

Zoglug · Post by **Zoglug** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:03 am

Cheers guys, it certainly gives me some things to think about.

As i say, ive been playing on fumbbl with them (i know its LRB 4) and unfortunately not got the best record with them (1/1/4) but the games have been close and could have tipped the other way but for snake eyes on a pass or gfi!

After playing an undead team, i like the fact i can pick up the ball with relative ease and throw it about so there definately a team im going to paint up and get ready for league/tourney play.

As for the big guy, i may well leave him behind.

fen · Post by **fen** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:15 am

barnsleybowl wrote:5 Linerats
4 Gutter Runners
2 Blitzers
1 Rat Ogre
3 RR

That's a great roster. I don't think I'd take anything else for 1.1M Skaven.

Zoglug · Post by **Zoglug** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:23 am

Well i used a proxied Skaven team the other day and took the team posted by barnsleybowl, i played a DE team. We rolled a D6 to determine at what point during the Game 07 tourney we would meet, and it worked out at game 4. So i got to take, skill wise

Before the first game: A normally accessible skill may be given to two players on their team. So i took kick on a linerat and strip ball on a gutter runner
Before game 2 a normally accessible skill may be given to one player. I took stand firm on my rat ogre. Dont want no pesky people pushing him off the pitch!
Before game 3 One player may receive a skill as if they received a doubles roll or Two players may be given a normally accessible skill. I went with big hand on a gutter. Always picking the ball up on a 2 is nice!
Before game 4 a normally accessible skill may be given to two players. I stuck guard on both of my stormvermin

The game went well from my perspective, and in the first half i never failed any d6 dice rolls. Every pass, gfi, dodge or catch and the dice was with me. My blocking dice though were poor, and i managed to roll 1 pow all game!!! Half time saw me 2-1 up. Offensively i had an idea of what to do, and flooded his backfield with 3 gutters and stuck linos on any of his lose players. He was dodging away on 2's but the more dice i made him roll the better.

It was pulled back to 2-2 after he scored turn 4, but again the high speed of the gutters and their fantastic agility led me to score in 2 turns again. Thankfully for me, it was the winning touchdown, as the DE ball carrier fumbled during the last turn just as it was looking like the DE would equalise.

I really liked the team, and cant wait until my mail order comes through (should be next week). Would you have taken other skills? For the final selections im planning on taking:

Game 4, GR Guard
Game 5, GR Sprint or Block

Cheers

Zog

Quadrasonic · Post by **Quadrasonic** » Sat May 19, 2007 2:15 pm

Big hand is only moderately useful on a Gutter Runner as they usually pick the ball up on a 2+ anyway, though I realize it combines well with strip ball. I would probably do sure hands on him instead.

And I don't think the Rat Ogre needed stand firm. I would probably have chosen break tackle to give him a better shot at the opponent's cage or I might have used the doubles skill on him and given him block.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Sat May 19, 2007 2:25 pm

doubles for block on the Rat Ogre (edit: just read it costs you 2 normal skills, so just take guard on the rat ogre and another skill somewhere else, block on the big rat isn't worth 2 other skills!), you will also want a block gutter runner and maybe one with side step.