Apo for a (110) tourney

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Sat May 12, 2007 9:40 am

The player going to the reserves is what killed the apo in tourneys. You're not even sure the player will ever be of use as it could be 2nd half and your opponent could stall up to turn 8. It just isn't worth it.
And a 75 percent chance of working isn't so great either.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Sun May 13, 2007 1:15 pm

Right. For me, when I play a dice game, I try to minimize the number of dice I need to roll to minimize risk. An apoth is risky. An extra linemen isn't.

Mootaz · Post by **Mootaz** » Mon May 14, 2007 8:37 am

And the lineman also helps when you're suffering from KOs, where your Apo won't help you.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Tue May 15, 2007 12:16 pm

TuernRedvenom wrote:The player going to the reserves is what killed the apo in tourneys. You're not even sure the player will ever be of use as it could be 2nd half and your opponent could stall up to turn 8. It just isn't worth it.
And a 75 percent chance of working isn't so great either.

If they're stalling that well, a reserve isn't going to help you either. A lot of this debate comes down to whether a extra lineman is better than an apoth for tournie play. I don't think anyone is argueing that you should not buy positionals in order to afford an apoth.

As for the 75% success rate, I think you have to remember it is 100% half the time or 50% succesful the other half. It might be an automatic move to the reserves and that is something worth bearing in mind.

But I will agree to disagree, as long as you don't mind me taking to the AlbaBowl and probably (depending on ruleset) the World Cup.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:21 am

As for the 75% success rate, I think you have to remember it is 100% half the time or 50% succesful the other half. It might be an automatic move to the reserves and that is something worth bearing in mind.

That is 75% percent.

The moving to the reserves is a big deal as leaving the player prone was the reason why almost everybody took an apoth before.If it was a 2+ and off the reserves then I'd still wouldn't take an apoth. So what I was trying to say was an apo used to add something extra over a reserve player, which it doesn't anymore.

Lemmy · Post by **Lemmy** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:51 pm

Vomit Lickspittle wrote:Agreed with Aliboon... the original roll sets the success prob of the reroll.... It's also situational on how badly you need a player in the next drive (or game if cas does not reset)....

What are the values of your most needed pieces? In league play I lost my Orc's Troll to a series of freakish rolls and he was DEAD.... glad I had an Apothecary... now he'll just MNG (regen was a failure).... That's a 180,000 piece I'll get back.... In a reset tourney I guess it doesn't matter.... Still, 50% chance to get the piece back for the next drive is better than no chance... and it's only 50k for the Apoth....

Maybe it doesn't matter, but I think it's dippy that the player would stay on the field while the apoth attends them.... Time for the stretcher bearers!

Actually the Apoth is used before the regeneration roll, so if you failed your regen the troll stays dead.

Quadrasonic · Post by **Quadrasonic** » Thu May 17, 2007 3:49 pm

This is something I have been musing over the last few days. It is very much a matter of taste, but I would ask myself the following questions:

Is my team's average ST less than 3?
Is my team's average AV less than 8?
Do I already have a 12th player?
Are my linemen worth 60,000gc or more?
Do I already have 4 re-rolls?
Is this a league or a long tournament where serious injuries stand?

If you answer "yes" to all these questions, as you might with a 110 team of Wood Elves, then an apothecary would be a must.

If you answer "yes" to 4 or 5 of these questions, as you may with a 110 team of Amazons or Skaven, then an apothecary may be a smart addition to your innitial roster (if you can afford one of course).

If you answer "yes" to 2 or 3 of these questions, as you might with a 100 team of Lizardmen or Human, then you should probably hold off and buy an apothecary with your winnings a few games on.

If you answer "yes" to 0 or 1 of these questions, perhaps with a 100 team of Orcs in a short tournament, an apothecary would be a sad waste of funds.

These are my conclusions anyway.

Meradanis · Post by **Meradanis** » Thu May 17, 2007 4:30 pm

Quadrasonic wrote:If you answer "yes" to all these questions, as you might with a 110 team of Wood Elves, then an apothecary would be a must.

Let's take a look at your Wood Elf team: 12 lineman = 840k. 4 Rerolls = 200k. Apo = 50k. Money left: 10k. Honestly, this team won't rock tournaments.

I don't think there is any doubt about the apo in league play, even with LRB 5. This topic is about an apo in a ressurection tourney. After reading all the pros and cons, this matter is not decided for me. On the one hand, you've got the risk of failure, because your opponent could inflict injuries worse than 'Badly Hurt' only. On the other hand, you might get back one of your key players, probably someone with an extra skill, which is a rare gift in most tourneys. Regarding this, I still believe the apo beeing a valid option for teams with 60k+ lineman. I'll share my experiences 1 1/2 weeks from now, after attending a 110k tournament with my Elves.

Nethrag · Post by **Nethrag** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:29 am

Let's take a look at your Wood Elf team: 12 lineman = 840k. 4 Rerolls = 200k. Apo = 50k. Money left: 10k. Honestly, this team won't rock tournaments.

Nor would it if you spent the 50k on anything else...

Quadrasonic · Post by **Quadrasonic** » Fri May 18, 2007 2:43 pm

It does seem to have shifted in the resurection direction, yes.

I suppose my questions are more built to help one decide if he needs an apothecary on his starting roster in a league or lengthy tournament (at least 6 games long). I had something else that I figured was relevant, but I couldn't find a wording that would fit it into my simple "yes-questionaire". This:

If a majority of your players have a defensive skill (like dodge) which keeps them on their feet or out of the Dead & Injured box you might be able to skate through without ever purchasing an apothecary. But do not uncross your fingers.

A resurection tournament, however, is a different animal altogether, and I would wager that an apothecary there would be a rare sight indeed.

Meradanis · Post by **Meradanis** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:05 am

I did some field studies reagarding the apo during a 110k tournament during the Botzliga Bembel Bowl 2. Although my overall performance has been pretty embarrassing (I totally blame those Bembel Bowl dices...

), the apo has been working well. I played (pro) elves, by the way.

Game 1: Apo for a badly hurt lino (60k) during half one, automatic success.
Game 2: I did some gambling, my Blitzer (110k+skill) had been injured during half one. I used the Apo to heal him (50/50).
Game 3: Apo for a badly hurt lino (60k+skill) during half one, automatic success.
Game 4: Same situation on the same player as in Game 2, and luckily the same outcome.
Game 5: Didn't need the apo, since my opponent didn't do a single casuality.

I've healed 320k worth of players (3/4 had one extra skill), but I've been quite lucky with those 50/50 rolls.