Help with the waterbowl choices for skills

Jonny Deth · Post by **Jonny Deth** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:09 pm

I am fairly new at playing the dwarfs and need to pick some skills and could do with some advice...

The picks are:
1. 4x skills 2x doubles
2. 3x skills 1x double MA+1
3. 5x skills AG+1
4. 4x skills ST+1

I have chosen no4 with guard on two blockers, Hail mary pass on a runner, sure feet on the other runner and ST+1 on one of the blockers...

I like a fairly solid LOS and the combination of guard and ST+1 will ensure that I can keep the centre ground...whilst flanking with the positional players. I also like the option of passing to counter the poor movement of my players.

What advice would be on offer?

I will be playing players who I have never played before. So can not guess their tactics...
_________________
Halflings rule!!!

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:51 pm

I'd be tempted to give +ST to a Slayer in LRB5; it makes Dauntless more reliable, and means he can frenzy ST3 players without worrying so much about where he follows to.

I like the Blockers with Guard, and I agree that giving skills to Runners seems wise. Sure Feet is doubles-only for a Runner, though. My money says give Pass to one Runner; a Dwarf team's sloggy style works much better when they can change directions suddenly.

Leipziger · Post by **Leipziger** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:05 pm

As a Skaven coach at the Waterbowl, can I recommend you take fend on 4 players and +1 ST on a reserve...

?

Cheers

Leip

Nethrag · Post by **Nethrag** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:10 pm

I wouldn't go with the +1S as it loses you a skill pick overall.
I'd pick

Block on one runner
+1M or Ag on the other
and then 4 x guard.

You can get a lot of starting rerolls with dwarves whilst still having max positionals and your runners start with surehands. If you need to pass use your team rerolls.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:10 pm

That HMP Runner is cute if you can pull it off. It should be fun, but frankly I've never actually seen HMP not backfire.

Can you give 2 upgrades to 1 guy? If so, this could be all kinds of fun.

+AG, Pass on Runner
Guard on Blocker
Guard on Blocker
Guard on Blocker
Nerves on Runner

Or

+1 MA on Runner
Pass (or HMP or Nerves or Kick-Off Return) on Runner
Dodge on Runner or Blitzer
Guard on Blocker
Guard on Blocker

Leipziger · Post by **Leipziger** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:14 pm

It is only 1 upgrade per player, Matt which rules out the top option. Re: Hail Mary Pass, I really like it as a skill but Jonny might not get near the ball in some games (if using HMP) as we already have 2 skaven coaches and 1 wood elf.

What about taking +1 ST on your runner? He can then break the line and it also means that he needs to two players to stop him.

Cheers

Leip

Nethrag · Post by **Nethrag** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:41 pm

Still think block with some guard assists would be better than +1S on the runner but I tend not to do very well with 1dice blocks against me!
Kick off return is really good for the second runner as it helps you form up a lot quicker against teams whose goal is to use kick to delay your cage forming.

Leipziger · Post by **Leipziger** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:55 pm

Skillset 2 is changed, Jonny. It should actually have read:

Upgrade 2 = 4 x skills, 1 doubles roll, 1 x MA +1

instead of 3 x skills, 1 doubles roll, 1x MA +1

Sorry about that

Cheers

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:03 pm

I would go with

Guard on 3 blockers
Stand Firm on a Troll Slayer
+1ST on a Blitzer

Evil Git · Post by **Evil Git** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:04 pm

johnny

it's entirely up to you what you go for but i'll give you a run down of what i think the skills that would benefit you for each of the options. You'll see a particular theme running through them all as well (but then no one ever said that dwarfs were an exciting race to play).

OPTION 1

4 x normal 2 x double

for your normal skills i'd go with guard. 2 on blockers to help with the front line duties and 2 on your blitzers. if you put it all on your blockers you'll find that just when you need that guard assist for a blitz from a troll slayer he'll be all tied up and dodging with an agility 2 player is never fun. also they're slow speed (even for dwarfs) is going to hamper him. a blitzer moves more (ok only by 1 but you'll be thankful of that extra square) and has agility 3 which will improve your dodge roll success from 50% to 67%.

if you don't like that boring skill choice then maybe think about tackle for the 2 blitzers instead of guard. you know now you'll be facing at least 2 skaven teams and a wood elf team. if rob (polarbear) joins up and i bet he does chances are he'll be using halflings. guard is useful against any team but if you don't go for that then you need skills that will work on as many teams as possible.

for your doubles rolls i'd play to your strengths, and your biggest strength is all your players start with block. well except 2 of them. and they're your key players (your agility 3, movement 6 ball carriers) so waste those 2 double rolls and give both your runners block. without block they've got a 67% chance of being knocked over on a one dice block. with block they've got 33%.

i think this is a really strong option to go for. it plugs up the gaps that your team starts with very effectively and gives you superiority from the get go with regards to engineering 2 dice blocks which will be the main thrust of the dwarf gameplan.

OPTION 2

4 x normal 1 x double 1 x MA+1

well normal skills would be the same as before. guard on 2 blockers and 2 blitzers (or 2 tackle if you prefer that). it helps to guarentee those 2 dice blocks which will help with the attrition war that dwarf teams need to get going in order to stand a better chance of winning. i know scoring touchdowns is what wins games but it helps alot more when you're facing ever dwindling numbers on the opposite side of the pitch.

your double choice could well be block on a runner again (never a bad choice) or any of catch, dodge, mighty blow or guard (you can never have enough guard

) on a troll slayer you might want to think about dodge or jump up as your double or maybe keep it as a wasted double and take something like grab so you can engineer pushes into the crowd easier. if you were thinking of giving a double to a blocker then i'd only really think of dodge just to make him even harder to know down (any player with block and dodge has a 17% chance of going down) but more than likely stick with a normal skill there as well.

your movement choice would be very handy on a runner but would make him a huge target to get taken out early doors. probably more practical to give it to one of the slower guys on the team. any of them would benefit from that upgrade.

i think this is the weakest option of the 4 though. it looks good from afar but far from good.

OPTION 3

5 x normal skills 1 x AG+1

ooh the choices. agility upgrade on either a runner, blitzer or troll slayer. it would be a waste giving it to a blocker to start with as they're movement won't really help much with what you'd want him to do (either secoindary ball carrier or mobile assist)

and then that leaves your normal skills. runner sis easy, block them up. blitzers would be guard, mighty blow, tackle, strip ball (only if there are more teams that start up with sure hands on the starting roster though) or frenzy could be fun (but dangerous as it would be very easy to get out of position with a couple of blocks).

troll slayers normal skills could be guard (although not really a top choice as he becomes more unreliable with frenzy) but more likely grab or mighty blow.

for blockers there's really only 2 choices to start with. guard or mighty blow. discount anything else.

overall a good option to choose and you could certainly do a lot worse. the range of normal skills should get you going in the right direction with a couple of guards to start with. the +AG would be useful on any of the positional players. either make a troll slayer a more potent blitzer type or have more options for carrying the ball with either runners or blitzers.

OPTION 4

4 x normal 1 x ST+1

again this one looks tasty but you are only getting 5 skill choices with this one instead of 6 with the others. the strength increase would be very effective on a troll slayer. he's only getting outmuscled by black orcs, saurus, chaos / nurgle warriors, bull centaurs and big guys. plus the benefit with him getting the increase is that unlike any of those other strength 4 beasts, your troll slayer has 2 bites of the cherry to get that all important casualty. that would be the better choice for that upgrade although having it on either a runner blocker or blitzer isn't a bad choice, i just think you'd see much more benefit from it on a troll slayer

normal skills would be similar to what i've said already. guard, guard, guard!

a tasty option certainly but with only a possible 5 skills total you could be on the back foot from the start.

Evil Git · Post by **Evil Git** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:09 pm

oh alex, got your message before but forgot to reply because i'm a dumbass

i'm living about an hour and a half away these days which is a bit too far for me to commit to anything long term. i'll try and make it up for the occasional time though if you don't mind a make weight joining the ladder and not playing much (that way i can't lose too many

)

jonny, i use to play in the waterbowl league for a few years so i'll take a quick butchers as to who's signed up and give you some insider information on what they play like if you want.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:38 am

Hmmm. This was the same skill set as in the Waterbowl tournie 2007. I came third in that with Dwarfs.

I took: TV110, 1 Runner, 2 Blitzers, 2 Troll Slayers, 6 Blockers 4 Rerolls, a Apoth etc

Block on my Runner, Guard on two Blitzers and One Blocker, Diving Tackle on Two Blockers.

This worked great, Still blocky but could tie down the agility teams and cause turnovers, but I'm not sure if they are changes to the set up that would make this worse.

As for your skills, You need Block on your runners. They are prime targets and will need the protection. Also it's pretty cool having a team with all Block.

I wouldn't take Hail Mary Pass as an offensive skill but it's quite useful when you're defending, especially against slow teams. Not sure it would be one of my picks though.

Plus ST is tempting I know but what will it give you. You have Troll Slayers with their Dauntless skill for hitting high ST opponents and hight St is one of the easiest things to get around for an experienced coach, especially if it's only one guy (and a slow, non-agile one at that).

Guard is golden but not sure two is enough. I didn't think three was enough in the tournie, but only really got out bashed (and played ) by one Khemri team

Hope this helps.

fire olli · Post by **fire olli** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:30 pm

I have just joined the waterbowl. I have a orc team and have picked the skill set 1.

2 double skills
4 normal skills

I have gone for
2 x blitzers with dodge
2 x blitzers with frenzy
1 x black orc with grab
1 x lineorc with kick.

fen · Post by **fen** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:36 pm

Evil Git wrote:troll slayers normal skills could be guard (although not really a top choice as he becomes more unreliable with frenzy) but more likely grab or mighty blow.

*BZZT!* No Grab on players with Frenzy.

Evil Git · Post by **Evil Git** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:58 pm

really? mybe i should read the rules for once in my life instead of just guessing. in that case don't take grab. that would be considered bad form

cheers for that fen