Tourney Chaos Team - Suggestions?

[PianoDan]

Hi all,
Here is a team I'm thinking of taking to eucalyptus bowl. It's 1.25k, and you can buy normal skills for 20k, doubles for 30k. Big guys can't have doubles. No more than one skill per player.

Beastman - Block
Beastman - Extra Arms
Beastman - Tackle
Beastman
Beastman
Beastman
Beastman
CW - Block
CW - Block
CW - Block
CW - Extra Arms
Mino - Claws
2x RR
1,250k (12 players)

The idea is that the two extra arms players will handle the ball... ideally the CW. I like the idea this duo to give me more versatility that the chaos team does not normally have with the ball (picking up and catching the ball). The mino will hopefully deal with some high armoured opponents while the tackle is for the elves and zons.

The options I'm considering are: Dropping a beastman for a RR. Dropping a beastman to give a CW Leader and assign another skill. Swapping a block CW to a guard one.

What are your thoughts? Any other suggestions?
I think my opposition will be the usual variation found at tourneys.
PD

[Digger Goreman]

The Mino only has armor of 8 so I would trade out claws to one of the Chaos Warriors and Block to the Mino....

Also switch one Chaos Warrior Block for Guard... you'll love it....

[PianoDan]

The Mino only has armor of 8 so I would trade out claws to one of the Chaos Warriors and Block to the Mino....

Also switch one Chaos Warrior Block for Guard... you'll love it....

I can't give block to the mino cos big guys can't take doubles in the tourney format.
The claw + MB on the mino should work well, though perhaps it is investing a lot in AV8...?

I'll definately consider a guard CW though

[mattgslater]

Looks good. I like all the Extra Arm; I think that's a good skill. With your question about Guard, I say "do it!" Subbing Guard for Block on a single CW will give you the ability to hold a very aggressive 3-4 defense with some of the best backers in Blood Bowl.

For my money, as much as I like Extra Arm, I'd put it on a Beastman (MA6 really matters) and use the CW to block for him. As far as the extra Beastman goes, I don't know what to recommend along with Leader. If you think you're going to face a bunch of agility teams, take a second Tackle guy; otherwise, go maybe for a Nerves of Steel player or another guy with Block. Or... given that he's going to be sitting on the other side from a Minotaur and will get blitzed a lot, maybe you should give him Block or... oooh... Side Step.

Juggy is at least as good as Claw on a Minotaur, I think.

My 2¢.

[Highlander]

Why not swap one or both of the Extra Arms skills for Sure Hands? You'll have better chances to pick up the ball and you won't fall victim to Strip Ball.

[DoubleSkulls]

Highlander makes a good point. There will be strip ball war dancers on every WE team!

I think I'd drop the Mino altogether. He's expensive and you've already got 11 players blitzing at S4. Get another beastman, a reroll and still have another 50k for skills. With that I'd take guard and leader - giving you 4 rerolls to compensate for the lack of skills. Then I'd seriously consider changing some of those blocks to guards too.

If you want something to hurt Dwarves/Orcs then just give Claw to a CW.

[PianoDan]

Thanks for the input guys, very apreciated.
Hmmm, actually I think I like the idea of dropping the mino.

So how about this list:
Beastman - Block
Beastman - Sure Hands
Beastman - Tackle
Beastman - Leader
Beastman - Block
Beastman
Beastman
Beastman
CW - Guard
CW - Claw
CW - Block
CW - Extra Arms
3x RR
1,250k (12 players)

I could swap the leader to a CW but I think I'd prefer to keep them with the skills they already have.

I think one sure hands and one extra arms keeps the versatility I want and helps protect against strip ball... Although perhaps I'd be better off changing the CW to SH too and force leaping dancers to half dice blocks.

I'm torn between swapping the claw to another guard. I think there will be some orcs and dwarfs around and I'm a bit scared of that... though perhaps guard would help deal with them better anyway...?

Cheers,
PD

[Da_Great_MC]

I don't know how good you play with Frenzy-guys. But to me this is an invaluable skill.

gl

[Meradanis]

Mighty Blow is better than Claw, if you wan't some smashing power, take MB. I reccomend to drop Claw and to take 2 Chaos Warrios with Block, because this way you'll have a decent defense on the line of scrimmage (2x Block + 1x Guard).

I like Da_Great_MC's suggestion, Frenzy + Horns can really do the job for you. I'd switch one Block Beastman with a Frenzy Beastman.

Oh, and I think skipping the mino could be a good choice. Chaos doesn't need a Minotaurus, and on a tourney he isn't worth the 150k most of the time.

[mattgslater]

Mighty Blow is better than Claw, if you wan't some smashing power, take MB. I reccomend to drop Claw and to take 2 Chaos Warrios with Block, because this way you'll have a decent defense on the line of scrimmage (2x Block + 1x Guard).

I like Da_Great_MC's suggestion, Frenzy + Horns can really do the job for you. I'd switch one Block Beastman with a Frenzy Beastman.

Oh, and I think skipping the mino could be a good choice. Chaos doesn't need a Minotaurus, and on a tourney he isn't worth the 150k most of the time.

Hmmm...
8x Beastman: Sure Hands, Leader, Extra Arms, Block, (Block or Tackle).
4x Warrior: Guard, Block x2 Frenzy
3x RR

Or
6 Beastmen: 360k: Sure Hands, Block x2, Tackle, Stand Firm*
4 Warriors: 400k: Guard, Block x2, Extra Arms*
1 Minotaur: 150k: Juggernaut
3 Re-Rolls
*Or swap these two.

7 Beastmen: Sure Hands, Leader, Extra Arms x2, Block x2, Tackle
4 Warriors: Frenzy, Block x2, Guard
3 Re-Rolls
1 Cheerleader
1 Asst.

[datalorex]

Dropping the mino is brilliant. You definitely need that 3rd RR too, so good call. Keep one Extra Arms as you can use him as a ball carrier AND a catcher!

[PianoDan]

A frenzy beastman is actually rather attractive as an option. Making teams driving up the side have to be extra careful, and also giving me more block dice on important blitzes.

So I guess the last question is:
do I take claw, MB, or block on one CW?
do I take 1 or 2 guard CW?

Most teams have an av9 player on their rosters and they are often key players. And claw is better than MB against AV9 (in terms of getting a player KO'd or better). Great vs dwarfs (inc deathrollers), orcs, CDs, mummies, ogres, saurus, chaos, nurgle, and even treemen. I feel that with the current roster I'd best try and protect vs these harder teams as they will provide my toughest matchups (I think).

It is for this reasoning too that perhaps the second guard is worth taking (there could easily be dwarf teams there with guard accross the board).

[mattgslater]

Hi all,
Here is a team I'm thinking of taking to eucalyptus bowl. It's 1.25k, and you can buy normal skills for 20k, doubles for 30k. Big guys can't have doubles. No more than one skill per player.

What are your thoughts? Any other suggestions?

Yeah. Play another race. These rules scream, scream, scream for a race that already gets Block!

2x Black Orc w/Block: 200k
2x Black Orc w/Side Step: 220k
1x Troll w/Guard: 130k
2x Blitzer w/Side Step: 220k
2x Blitzer w/Guard or Tackle: 200k
1x Thrower w/Leader: 90k
1x Lineman w/Kick or rookie Thrower: 70k
2x Re-Roll

Oh yeeaah. How obnoxious would that be? Or Dwarfs.

3x Longbeard w/Guard
2x Longbeard w/Grab or Guard or Stand Firm or MB or 1 Grab/1 Guard or 2 rookies and an extra RR (God bless 40k RRs)
2x Longbeard w/Stand Firm
1x Blitzer w/Grab
1x Blitzer w/Pro
1x Runner w/Nerves of Steel
1x Runner w/Pass
1x Slayer w/Mighty Blow or Pro
2x Re-Roll
1x Apothecary (use on the first BH you suffer on a pos or 2nd on a longbeard)

Oops. wherever you see " longbeard," feel free in your head to replace it with "longbeard, dammit."

Or Chaos Dwarfs:
2x Bull Centaur w/Block
2x Hobgoblin w/Sure Hands
1x Hobgoblin w/Leader
2x Hobgoblin
2x CD w/Guard
2x CD w/Grab
2x CD w/Stand Firm
2x TRR

These are all Chaos-y teams, and I think that the limit of 1 skill per player puts Chaos (who need a more natural progression to get some deeply-developed combo guys) at a big disadvantage. Even if players had to pay extra for a second skill, or if there were a limit of, say, 12 skills, it would totally be worth it. But as written, any of these teams would whip up on whatever Chaos team you or I or anyone can cobble together.

[PianoDan]

You know, I completely agree, those 3 teams you've posted there are at a pretty massive advantage imo (well at least over chaos).

Sadly though, chaos are the team I've only just finished painting and only have the choice between them and wood elves...

[mattgslater]

Hmm... so Chaos it is (you might actually be able to do better with Wood Elves, but these rules don't do them any favors, either). Maybe you should ask the organizer next time to allow two or three second skills, the better to simulate the progression of a real-world team, and not to screw Chaos in particular.

3 CW for the line, each needs a skill. That's 36 points, including one guy with Guard and two with Block. I don't think you need any Mighty Blow or Claw for this kind of situation; in a league, they're huge, but in a tourney, not so much. You can have a 4th Warrior, or you can sac him to get more skills on Beastmen. Normally, against teams like the ones you're describing, you'd want to run a 3-4 defense, and you don't need to hold a +ST guy back to blitz, so you might find the two skills more valuable than the ST bump. If not, maybe make him a blocker for a receiver with Extra Arm, and give him Guard. That gives you also a back-up in case your nose tackle goes down.

Do you expect to face real competition from Undead, Wood Elves, Halflings, Gobbos of Skaven? If so, take at least one BM with Tackle, maybe two, and maybe a Frenzy guy (otherwise, I'm not too keen on Frenzy first for a BM; I agree that it's a good skill for the player, but not until he's got Block). You can count on Blodge on Ghouls and at least a few Halflings, Gobbos or GRs, and against those guys Tackle is great (if they don't have Block, then you can put a Block guy on them too, so don't worry about Dodge players you think won't get Block; Ghouls with SH are easy prey for a Block BM). With your steeply limited skills and total lack of Block/Tackle options, Tackle is bad news, actually, even if it's necessary. Hmmm... a Minotaur might not actually be a bad buy; unlike a Tackle guy you can always get mileage out of his abilities, and three dice, frenzy and Juggernaut is really a lot like Blockle. Plus he's a good big guy hunter. Hmmm... I don't normally recommend Minos, but it might be just what you need.

How good are you in relation to the other coaches? Is anyone else right around your level? If so, what do they play?

Oooh.
3x CW w/Block (W)
1x CW w/Guard (w)
2x BM w/Block (B)
2x BM w/Guard (b)
1x BM w/Extra Arms (X)
1x BM w/Sure Hands (S)
1x Mino w/Juggy (M)
2x RR

No fat... but man it'll hit like a freight train. You could take Block off a BM and get rid of a re-roll to take Leader and an Apothecary (in a tournament, Apothecary the first BH you take; let SIs and Kills go if they don't have any long term consequences); that's just like having 12 guys. If you're dead-set against a Mino, then give one CW Tackle (use a CW so you can get in front of an opponent without worrying so much about getting blitzed out of the way) and replace the Minotaur with two BMs, one with Grab or Kick and one with Leader.