Diving Catch and LOS

bouncergriim · Post by **bouncergriim** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:41 pm

Okay last game I played the ball was kicked to my opponent and landed on his side of the LOS. I rolled perfect defense and set up a player with Diving catch beside the ball, could have have caught it legally before the scatter and start of my opponents turn?

(we ruled no because the ball would have ended up on the wrong side of the LOS thus causing a touchback)

What are y'all's thought on this?

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:47 pm

That's a very interesting question

A kick-off must land in the opponent's half of the pitch. Assuming the ball lands in the receiving team’s half of the pitch, then it will either land in an empty square or a square occupied by a player. If the ball lands in an empty square it will bounce one more square (see Bouncing Balls on page 13). If the ball lands on a square occupied by a player, the player must try to catch the ball (see Catching the Ball on page 13). If the ball scatters or bounces off the pitch or into the kicking team’s half, the receiving coach is awarded a ‘touchback’ and must give the ball to any player in his team. Once the kick-off has been taken you are ready to proceed to the first turn of the game.

So the rules are a bit grey. However I think the crucial bit is the first section I underlined - must land in the opponent's half. If you catch it in your half then it hasn't landed in his and its a touchback.

Do you think this would need a FAQ?

bouncergriim · Post by **bouncergriim** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:56 pm

based on the rules as they are stated a FAQ might help clear it up, but on the other hand having D.Catch work like that might make it slightly more useful, but it would only really benefit teams with lots of AG access (elves and stunties).

I think a FAQ would be good.

skritter · Post by **skritter** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:06 pm

But the first placement of the ball is not where the ball IS, but only the targeted spot (the ball is still in the air). The scatter roll is to see where the ball actually lands and then bounces one square.

So your diving catch dosen't even have the opportunity to have a go at it

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:13 pm

The correct sequence is to roll d8d6 and scatter first.... If the scatter has the ball coming down on the receiving scrimmage line and you have a player next to the square with diving catch....

That is a conundrum....

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:34 pm

Why would it need FAQ? From the Diving Catch skill:

as if it landed in in his own square

If the player uses DC to make the catch, then the ball has left his opponent's half on the KO, and is therefore a touchback. If someone is so intent of giving me a touchback, then I'll let them use it - always happy not to have to risk a pick-up if I can help it.
And even if they fail the catch, the ball is still scattering from a square in their own half, thereby triggering the touchback scenario.

No FAQ needed imo.

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:12 pm

hmm, never thought that the ball moved to the Diving Catch player's square unless they actually caught the ball.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:22 pm

Well, I might be wrong on that bit, but I assumed that if you're attempting to catch from your own square and fail, it would bounce from your square.
Otherwise you could get a situation like this (at anytime, not specifically at the KO).
123
4B5
6C8
Ball lands in square B, player C (with Diving Catch attempts to catch the bal, fails, the ball scatters to square 7, and player C gets a 2nd attempt to catch it.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:24 pm

GorTex wrote:hmm, never thought that the ball moved to the Diving Catch player's square unless they actually caught the ball.

I would agree - but since using DC would be a touchback you'd never bother so the use/success point is moot.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:44 pm

So you think a DC player should get 2 chances to catch the ball (4 with the Catch skill)?

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:46 pm

I agree with Darkson's explanation and citing of the rules....

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:07 pm

Darkson wrote:Well, I might be wrong on that bit, but I assumed that if you're attempting to catch from your own square and fail, it would bounce from your square.

Nope. It bounces in the original square if you fail the catch. Also you can't try to catch bouncing balls either so your example isn't correct.

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:36 pm

in relation to a Kickoff yes..

But normally, would the catcher get 2 chances (potentially)? I hadn't really thought of it before.. well, really 7/8 chances

I'm willing for that to happen--makes the skill slightly better. We all know it's one of the bottom teir skills as it is (tho it is better now than it has ever been)

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:20 pm

No.

The player can attempt to catch any pass, kick off or crowd throw-in, but not bouncing ball

So you only ever get one chance

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:23 pm

ianwilliams wrote:Nope. It bounces in the original square if you fail the catch. Also you can't try to catch bouncing balls either so your example isn't correct.

Er- what do you mean you can't try to catch bounching balls? If the ball bounces into your square, you have to try to catch it.

So ignore the KO for the moment (as that's a special case), and let me see if I've got what you're saying correct.

If a player uses DC, and fails, you're saying the ball will scatter from the square it should have landed in (as if the player didn't have DC)?
Correct?

If so, there is a 1/8 (basic, ignoring other players etc) chance that the ball will then scatter into the square where the DC player is, giving them a 2nd chance to catch it, as according to the rules you must attempt to catch a bounching ball.

That's way I assumed the ball scatters from the DC player on a failed catch - I didn't think the intention was to give the player 2 (possible) bites at the cherry.