Orc Blitzers... What to do...

bouf · Post by **bouf** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:35 pm

Hey guys...

So far I have a plan to build two Blitzers as my regular 'Go to' Guys (All rounders who do a little of everything)

Sure Hands, Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, Juggernaught, Wrestle, <<Dodge, Sure Feet>>

One as a Casualty Hog (who I try to get over the LoS to hurt throwers and Key Positionals)

Pile On, Tackle, Mighty Blow, Frenzy, Pro, <<Jump Up, Dodge>>

and One as a Ball Hog (Who I always try to leave behind my LoS to run down Breakaways)

Strip Ball, Tackle, Frenzy, Juggernaught, Mighty Blow <<Leap, Sure Feet>>

What do you guys think? Is this a sound team build for Orc Blitzers?

FYI: I have plans for
2 Black Orcs with Block, Guard, Grab... <Side Step>
2 with Block, Frenzy, Mighty Blow... <Side Step>
My Troll will be Guard, Stand firm, Thick Skull... <Block or Pro>
Throwers will be Kick Off Return, Dump Off, NoS, <Dodge or Jump Up>
Line Men will be Wrestle, Dirty Player, Tackle <Guard>

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:05 am

I've won a lot with orcs, and you seem to have similar development instincts to mine.

I totally agree with the 2 SH Blitzers if you go for only one Thrower. If you go up with both Throwers, you can let one go MB-Pro and the other can go MB-SH.

If it's not a bashy league, then I'd go Tackle before Piling On or Strip Ball; if it is a bashy league, never mind. If you actually do get past 3 increases, I don't know if Juggy will help nearly as much as Grab; more blocks = more takedowns.

I think once you've got a Thrower with Kick-Off Return, you want the other one to get Nerves of Steel and play ball-getter. If you do, you only need one SH Blitzer, and you can give the other one Pro instead.

I wouldn't take Leap on a Blitzer. 4+ is bad. Some don't fear the 50/50 shot, and they'll take Leap. I think Dodge is a much better bet, even if it doesn't help cover ground as well.

Side Step on a Black Orc is just frickin' wrong; if you get doubles, go for it.

Otherwise I think it's great.

Tante Kaethe · Post by **Tante Kaethe** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:28 am

Just one note on Piling on and Mighty Blow: it's a great skill-combo, but always take MB first. The chances of hurting your opponent are almost identical to PO and you stay on your feet. Here's a nice topic discussion on this topic

:

viewtopic.php?t=20346&highlight=

Cheers

Tante Käthe

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:09 am

Yep, agree with MB b4 Piling on. I'd probably want some guard in there too (certainly b4 standfirm on your "go to" guys and probably the first skill on one of them). BoBs take ages to skill up, and you'll prob want block as their first skill.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:37 pm

I usually give Guard to BOBs over Blitzers. A BOB is harder to push away than a Blitzer, at least with ST3 players.

Cloggy · Post by **Cloggy** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:49 pm

To be honest I like to build Orcs as though there are dwarves. Guard and Mighty Blow on everything after block. Then some tackles, piling on or other skills on the blitzers.

But that might have something to do with the fact that I'm mostly an online player and can't keep my different players apart too well on the board

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:57 pm

I usually give Guard to BOBs over Blitzers. A BOB is harder to push away than a Blitzer, at least with ST3 players.

True enough, but you'll sometimes need a mobile guard somewhere (BOBs aint mobile) and without block, they're a liability. Getting to 16 SPPs on a BOB will take (generally) a lot longer than getting that far on a blitzer.

TennBoy · Post by **TennBoy** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:45 pm

All my blitzers get a nice dosing of guard as their first skill if it isn't a doubles or stat increase. These 4 guys tend to do 80% of the work load on my team so skilling them up isn't too hard.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:24 pm

Aliboon wrote:
I usually give Guard to BOBs over Blitzers. A BOB is harder to push away than a Blitzer, at least with ST3 players.
True enough, but you'll sometimes need a mobile guard somewhere (BOBs aint mobile) and without block, they're a liability. Getting to 16 SPPs on a BOB will take (generally) a lot longer than getting that far on a blitzer.

I see the idea of getting one or two Blitzers with Guard, I guess... I think it depends heavily on your opponents. In a bashy league, Blitzers with Guard are pretty cool. In a softer league, I tend to avoid Guard with Orcs -- Dwarfs need it badly because they have S access and bashy skills, but no actual +ST players, but Orcs have all kinds of other skill needs. In a league, I think Mighty Blow is great, especially if you have a Troll as well. All those extra armor-breaks makes a huge difference, even if each one individually doesn't matter much, and it gets you more SPP without taking points away from other players. If you take Guard as your first investment, the odds of getting MB while it still matters (in a league-progression sense) go down significantly, and if your player already has MB, you've got incentives to take skills that improve that guy's chance of turfing/taking out an opponent, like Tackle or Piling On.

bouf · Post by **bouf** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:02 am

I've played 7 (4/1/2) games this season and I have the following
The Bighorns

3x BOrcs with Block,
1x Thrower with Bl-odge
1x Thrower with Kick-Off return

1x Blitzer with +ST ("Go to")
1x Blitzer with Strip Ball ('Ball Hog')
1x Blitzer with Sure Hands ("Go to")
1x Blitzer with Jump Up, Pile On. ("Meat Axe")

I've also got...
1x BOrc, 1x Troll, 1x Goblin, 1x Lineman, (All with nothing)
2x Re-roll, 2x Cheerleaders, 1x Apoth.
(TV=1 480 000)

The Blitzers are such an important part of the Orc Roster... I'm heavily thinking about Adding Guard to my Go-To guys but I wonder about some of the other skills...

Dauntless for example, or Frenzy... If only I could get dodge!

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:08 pm

6/4/3/9 Block, MBlow can really wreak havoc, and your opponents will start to fold quickly if you have multiple Mighty Blow guys, but it's about getting the skill in numbers so you can get more opponents off the field and more SPP to your Blitzers, and I don't know if you can still pull it off since you don't have any at this late point (it's not essential, but having your opponent man-down is a lot like having faster and stronger players). Are the Black Orcs and other Blitzers close to improvement? If you can get more than one BOB up to another roll in the next couple of games, you can get one with Guard and another with MB, and you're doing ok in that game. Especially if you give Guard to the rookie (and the Troll) when/if you should be so lucky. Do they have any SPP?

If you're not going to veer that direction with your skill scheme (and I'm not sure I'd recommend it given you mostly didn't start that way), I'd consider giving the ST4 guy Frenzy or Tackle, depending on what you've got for opposition. In the old days, MA6, ST4, Block and Stand Firm used to mean you had a "you can't push me off so I'll stand on the sidelines and you can't get past" cornerback, but in the days of Juggernaut, that's a long-lost memory.

What are you going to do with your Lineman? Kick? Block? DP?

Evil Git · Post by **Evil Git** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:21 pm

matt

to answer your question here's a quick rundown of his team...

thrower - kick-off return - 6 points
thrower - block / dodge - 19 points

blitzer - strip ball - 15 points
blitzer - sure hands - 11 points
blitzer - +ST - 11 points
blitzer - jump up / pile on - 16 points

black orc - block - 7 points
black orc - nothing - 4 points
black orc - block - 9 points
black orc - block - 6 points

troll - nothing - 0 points

goblin - nothing - 5 points

lineman - nothing - 0 points

as for games left, i'm not sure because there's no details as such but so far from his 7 games he's played 5 different teams. i'd imagine he's around the halfway mark. there's definitely a necro team, chaos dwarfs (well a team with the tag line of the hats of haste, i presume are c dwarfs) human, norse and one i'm not sure about (sanguine lords of gleed make me think vampire, but could be undead / necro / human)

for blitzer no. 1 (15 points) i'd be tempted with guard. personally it wasa toss up between that and tackle before i looked over the roster and more importantly the teams, not much dodge around. could give m b low to him to try and get him raking some more spps. frenzy might be another option, working with strip ball.

for the black orc (4 points) i would normally go block, but you've got 3 of them already so this oner can wait a bit for block (next skill). mighty blow (to try and get more points quicker) or guard (helps the team in general) are probably your choices there.

goblin, hmmm now here's the thing. side step's annoying to play against (and combines well with stunty) maybe catch if you want that (free re-roll for hand offs to him then)

the other close ones really are the 2 blitzers on 11 points. the +ST guy i'd give him m. blow and really start bringing the hurt. frenzy might be a good choice here as well.

the sure hands one i'd be more tempted with something like guard. he's going to be the more passive of your 4 blitzers as i take it you use him more for ball carrying duties. team him up with another blitzer. would work nicely with tyhe strip ball guy.

but then again i'm a guard freak and think you can never have enough of it

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:16 am

I like Guard on the Sure Hands guy. Strip Ball boy would definitely get MB the way I see it; he's likely to make a lot of blitzes against comparatively valuable and fragile players. I agree that Guard is a good improvement for that 4th BOB; you have one within a Cas and MVP of a second improvement, and if you get so lucky in the next couple games, I'd go MB. I'd also go MB on that Blitzer with +ST. If the league were REALLY bashy, maybe I'd be recommending more Guard, but Evil Git makes it sound like you're going to be shooting for Werewolves and Hobgoblins and Ghouls, maximizing the value of Mighty Blow.

What do you get a Gobbo on an Orc team when he advances, and what do you get on doubles? Does he get Catch, Side Step or Sure Feet? On doubles, is it Block or Sure Hands or Nerves of Steel?

bouf · Post by **bouf** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:21 am

Here you can find our league standings and the teams we have going at the moment (18 in the league)

For those not interested in the peek at out league, here is a break down.

KALI MAAAAHHHHH: Chaos Dwarf
Shadowgate Dragons: Dark Elves
Bearded Bastards: Dwarf
Crimson Tide: Dwarf
Valarion's Vanguard: Elf
Cosmic Fools: Goblin
Campaign 4 Equal Hights: Halfling
Altdorf Celtic: Human
Sanguine Lords of Gilead :Human
Fiery Lizards of Mt Gravatt: Lizardmen
Green Pant Ghoulies: Necromantic
Iceflow Intruders: Norse
Huginn's Handlers: Norse
Pestilence: Nurgle
Rocky Mountain Bighorns: Orc
Borzag's Blitzaz: Orc
Good Rats: Skaven
Toombul Tip Faces: Skaven

I've played 7 of 10 for our Early season. Then we have a 4 way dungeon match for the mid seadon tournament. ( I just may make it into that one too) Then another 10 games and the finals after that. (8 team elimination)
My next two games are against the Dwarves... then 10 tenth game isn't decided yet.

I'm looking at Mighty Blow as a next skill for everyone (Blitzer wise) but the Strip Ball Buy who will get Frenzy (Evil Git is right that there isn't much dodge at the moment and Frenzy may just do the same job - Plus it has great synergy with Strip ball). Maybe the +ST guy will get Mighty Blow, or maybe frenzy instead... Dunno just yet.

The Lask Bork is pinging me off a bit that he won't get that last CAS! I was wondering about Guard First so I can get a little help on the LoS but I'm worried that he'll never get the 2nd skill without MVPs. I'm an ex-Ogre coach so I'm mad for guard but I'm trying to hang back a bit this time around. I do want it but not right away...

The Linman hardly see's any action. (2xTh, 4xBl, 4xBo, 1xT = 11) so I'm steering away from kick but I'm gagging for a good DP.

((Thanks for the tips, Keep em comming!))

bouf · Post by **bouf** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:04 am

mattgslater wrote: BOB; you have one within a Cas and MVP of a second improvement, and if you get so lucky in the next couple games, I'd go MB.

I was thinking of Frenzy for two of the Borks and Guard for the other two (after Block) Mighty blow as a third skill for the Frenzys and Grab for the Guarders. That way I should be able to really control the field position even though I'll do a few less casualties.

mattgslater wrote: I'd also go MB on that Blitzer with +ST. If the league were REALLY bashy, maybe I'd be recommending more Guard, but Evil Git makes it sound like you're going to be shooting for Werewolves and Hobgoblins and Ghouls, maximizing the value of Mighty Blow.

Sold! I'm going to do it so he can get more SPPs and Maximise the hurt... Since my Borks are a ways away from MB...

mattgslater wrote:What do you get a Gobbo on an Orc team when he advances, and what do you get on doubles? Does he get Catch, Side Step or Sure Feet? On doubles, is it Block or Sure Hands or Nerves of Steel?

From my days coaching a Ogre team I've come to love Sure Feet and Jump up on teh Grubbins.... Pass block is insane on a stunty but I'll probably take Werstle or Block first just to keep him alive (Assuming I roll Doubles that is!)