Touchdown or not?!?

Remco · Post by **Remco** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 12:27 pm

7th turn of 2nd half. The opposing coach is one square away from the endzone with his ballcarrier, no re-rolls left. He moves his miniature and declares a touchdown. At the same time(!) I yell "Illegal Procedure", because he forgot to move his turnmarker. He still claims the touchdown, as the Handbook says about a touchdown: "As soon as this happens, play stops(...)" I can't call an IP on him anymore, because of that. I claim he didn't score because I yelled IP at the moment he touched his miniature.

Who is right here?

Nagash · Post by **Nagash** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 12:35 pm

You are - though i think that the illegal procedure rule is the most stupid and game-spoiling thing around.

... should be played that you receive e team reroll if the opposing coach forgets to move the turn marker - not turn-over... I take no pride in beating a team because I forced x turn-overs by using illegal procedure...

stupid rule...

franck_le_grand · Post by **franck_le_grand** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 12:40 pm

Well this is a tough one, for others to decide.
But in the LRB it says:

An action is considered to be moving one or more squares...

Now this actually means that he can touch any minis he has but not move them, before get called for an IP.
But I see your point, if play stops by the time the IP is called the player has moved one square and stands in the endzone with the ball, and this is ofcourse considered as a TD.

I don't know which one of you is right, but if I were you, I would roll a dice:
1,2,3: you're right and 4,5,6: he's right.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 12:50 pm

we ruled it was as soon as you declared an action for the player, and as moving is an action it's a turnover as soon as the coach shifts the model.

I do agree that IP's are one of the worst rules going, and by the end of the league we had pretty much stopped calling them. I'd like to see it changed to extra RR as well.

Nagash · Post by **Nagash** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:14 pm

Darkson wrote:we ruled it was as soon as you declared an action for the player, and as moving is an action it's a turnover as soon as the coach shifts the model.

I do agree that IP's are one of the worst rules going, and by the end of the league we had pretty much stopped calling them. I'd like to see it changed to extra RR as well.

Is it on Galak´s list?

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:20 pm

Nagash wrote:Is it on Galak´s list?

Probably, most things are

Nagash · Post by **Nagash** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:26 pm

Darkson wrote:
Nagash wrote:Is it on Galak´s list?
Probably, most things are

.. would be forever grateful to whoever were to change it. The rule simply gets people frustrated and angry - no matter how much a sportman you are... BB is all about having fun....

and winning...

.. and killing...

Ithilkir · Post by **Ithilkir** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:01 pm

Personally we just scrapped the Illegal Procedure rule, we found it to be less 'people friendly' and generally caused more arguments than not.

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:06 pm

i asked this question some month ago: TD!
Explanation: when you call an IP, the opposite player must have moved one squre or block. Even if he didnt say TD, you call ip, but the guy is in the end-zone (an ip dont take the action back!) so this is a TD anyway!!

Rustycan · Post by **Rustycan** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 5:37 pm

In our league we dont call IP's very often. We just remind the offender to move his damn turn marker. But IMHO we woudl consider that a TD as you have to move a mini for it to be an IP.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 10:14 pm

The only way i could consider that not a td is if the player moved had Bonehead or some similar thing, and he rolled bh after the fact and failed. Otherwise, one way or another, the guy still moved and did make a td.

dakkakhan · Post by **dakkakhan** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:06 pm

That's BS. The guy did not follow the rules and you give him a TD? I'll tell you what, that sucks. I don't call it every time and usually look to see that my opponent has the rerolls to spare before I would call it, but this is a turnover.

I'm sure the rules lawyers will say the square moved scored a TD, but it is the intent of the coach that counts. What if he just picks up his player and starts setting up for a kickoff? Did he move him or not? did the guy actually touch the endzone? That's why the letter of the rule doesn't match it's intent. The intent is that moving your turn marker MUST be the first thing you do every turn.

I'll bet if the guy had an extra reroll he'd have burned it thankfully and considered himself lucky. I would have ruled that a turnover without the guy having moved at all.

Ithilkir · Post by **Ithilkir** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:23 pm

Page 8 of the LRB, under "Moving the turn marker" and talking about IP's

"An action is considered to be moving one or more squares, or rolling the dice....."

then....

"a coach that suffers a turnover (in regards to an IP) must end his turn immediately - even if part way through a player's action"

So to me personally though YMMV, then yes. It is a touchdown. The player had moved a square, counting as an action, the IP was called ending the players turn immediately. End result. Player with ball in opponents endzone, thus a touchdown.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:25 pm

Tho scoring a touchdown is a turnover anyway not much point calling the IP :p

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:27 pm

Longshot is correct. His turn ends as soon as he commits the IP but to commit the IP he had to make a TD. It's a TD. You can't take away his TD and his turn is over. If he had declared a blitz and then you called it before the move took place I would say, "No TD." but that's not what happened. The ball broke the plane.

I don't see why so many hate the IP rule. My league loves it. It happens very rarely but we love any rule that allows you to burn your opponent.

Also, have you ever watched 2 rookies play a BB game without IP? If the agme is good they are bound to forget what turn they are on.