mattgslater wrote:
I've heard the same thing from many other coaches and I agree that for most teams it's best to kick first against most opponents, but my experience with Wood and Pro Elves vs. Orcs and (mostly) vice-versa has been the opposite. Of course I'd rather have all 11 guys, but playing man-down with elves, I've only found defense difficult if at first it doesn't work (then it sucks and you get clobbered); when the ball starts in the opponent's backfield, it's a lot easier to get it to the endzone. If the bashy opponent receives first and you can't get the ball away, you're often in for 8 turns of 'urt, and you've got to start 0-1 in the second half, usually down a lot of guys.
I can't say I share that experience with elves.
If your defence with elves entirely relies on getting the ball before the opponent can secure it then you will be in trouble a lot of games. I expect my opponent to secure the ball and then I can still usually play good defence with elves and get it away from him without getting mauled, you just need to develop your team right. If he cannot secure the ball then that's just a lucky break, it really doesn't happen all that often to good bashy coaches unless you roll a blitz.
Sure, defense is best with 11 guys. So's offense. Failing to get in on a receiving drive while man-down is how you get mauled, as if the opponent can beat you for the ball, he can usually preclude any retaliation on your part and either finish the wrecking job, or score quickly because he knows he can do it again. Kicking, on the other hand, always gets you the ability to pressure the opposition, at least so long as you have 6 guys (with 5 guys it's harder, with 4 it's much harder, and with 3 it's pretty hopeless). I've been on the bashy end of this a lot of times, and I can tell you the big wins come when I smack the opponent silly for eight turns, then spend the rest of the game kicking the ball downfield, running over the opponent's battered remains, grabbing the ball and putting it in the EZ for a 3-0 or 4-0 win. Your D has to be a frickin' wall and you have to have a great pass rush, but Orcs at least can do it, and I had a Chaos Dwarf coach friend who started using a variant on the same D and had the same experience.
I agree if you want high scoring games you can play this way. Honestly, I just want to win my games. I rarely have high scoring games (4+ scored) but I very rarely lose as well. My goal is always to build teams that only lose 1 out of 10 games, not teams that can make high scores 4 out of 10 games. Not that I always reach that goal though...
Again, offense is easier then defence. It's easy to score with men down, it's not so easy to defend with men down unless you get lucky.
I see the bit about the extra chance to recover KOs, but I think the chance to get the first blocks in is more decisive for the REALLY bashy teams, or against teams that can't handle it. A single turn 1 casualty means your opponent must spend 16 turns man-down if no reserve, or must go man-down immediately (that is, for the whole first half) and dig into their reserve for the next drive. Either way, this increases the number of opportunities to deal more damage, as your opponents will be less able to avoid you and less able to block you as they start losing players. If you stick in hard enough, and if you get your cage together fast enough, you have 8 turns to bash and bash and bash and bash with no reset in sight. Yeah, his KOs recover twice, but that's not such a big deal as long as you're getting some Cas results: if you can cream him once at full strength, you can do it again man-down. Just be sure to look him in the eye so he knows you know it.
In fact his ko's recover thrice. First 2 rolls at the end of the half. Next another roll after he has received and made a touchdown.
I find it rather hard to believe that anyone can construct a team which can
consistently maul opposing elf teams so hard at half time, relying almost solely on casualties (and ko's are almost 50% more likely to happen then cas, 17 % cas, 25% ko of broken armour, that's a very significant difference) so that next half they are unable to score back.
And even if this were possible (it might be if your team heavily invests in tackle, mb, frenzy and pile on, but then you'd get creamed by other bash teams who invested in guard) I'd still rather give them the ball first, use the first drive solely to try to get rid of some annoying elements which might cause me trouble on my drive, pressure them to score quickly and then proceed to do the bash and bash and bash for 7 turns while every ko now also counts as half a casualty as most likely they'll only have 50% of ever coming back. It's often easier to do damage on defence as your opponent needs some of his guys to protect and carry the ball.
Even better, if you receive and score in turn 8, you're generally 1-0 at the half, making the opponent desperate as they receive -- if they don't get through, they lose, and if they do get through, they have to either force you to score or get the ball from you, or they lose. Again, look 'em in the eye, and grin! Blood Bowl is largely a psychological game.
I play with people who play this game for more then 10 years, this isn't very likely to have any effect whatsoever.
I see what you are saying (good discussion!) but I don't like that playing style. I like to control the game and build my teams towards achieving that. In this strategy kicking works best as you should have built a team that can take away the initiative from the opponent and leave him reacting to your moves.
As I said earlier in this thread sometimes it is worth receiving:
* vs an 11 man squad while you have some bruisers in the team
* when playing a team that is really good when it actually has the initiative but not good at regaining it. Think of a chaos team loaded with claw, mighty blow and pile on but little to no guard vs a dwarf team loaded with guard. The chaos team's only hope here is to receive and do enough damage so that the dwarves cannot use their guard to block them back.
* when you feel your team is facing a team (or/and a coach) that is a lot stronger, you need to get lucky to win so you might as well hope those first blocks in fact do make the difference.
Un bon mot ne prouve rien. - Voltaire
), I chose to kick first and managed to pop the ball free early in the half before scoring on my third turn. From there, I avoided the wrath of his Chaos Warriors and used most of the second half to score my second touchdown while keeping my star thrower out of harm's way.
