Choosing not to recieve?

stormmaster1 · Post by **stormmaster1** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:49 pm

If going for a 2-0 or 2-1 bashy win, then the defence of the other team is key. Thats why i recieve first. I have 8 turns to score when their defence is full strength, and the more difficult 5-6 turn drive is done when they are men down. If kicking first, then KO rolls are reduced, but the first half will be more difficult an the second half easier. The first half is when i find difficulty, so i recieve.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:27 am

For the first time, a friend of mine chose to kick off to me the other day. On my first turn, I killed his star player. The rest was easy. That first punch in the jaw can be deadly.

Also, no one has mentioned how important receiving is to goblin teams or Dwarf teams with Deathrollers.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:43 am

datalorex wrote:For the first time, a friend of mine chose to kick off to me the other day. On my first turn, I killed his star player. The rest was easy. That first punch in the jaw can be deadly.

Also, no one has mentioned how important receiving is to goblin teams or Dwarf teams with Deathrollers.

Funny enough, I just argued for your point and now I'm going to argue against it.

My Pro Elves just spanked a Dwarf team that did the same calculation a few weeks ago, because he couldn't keep his grip on the ball; his Runner got the ball, but couldn't get it to the pocket fast enough, and he got exactly two blocks with the Deathroller before I scored on him and Count Zamboni went bye-bye. A a Longbeard ejected and a lucky casualty on his Runner in the next drive, and we were on the way to a 6-0 rout; there's not much that Dwarfs can do when down by 3 men against an Elf team.

Kicking first against a Dwarf team with a Deathroller can be awful... or not. If you're well into the season and the Dwarfs have not only enough Guard to shove the opponent all over but also enough MB to complement the Deathroller as well, then I agree; you can sometimes wreck an opponent so hard that they have no hope of scoring on their drive, KOs or not. If the opponent can turn the ball over, though, they can effectively take out one of your guys when they score. If you think your Dwarfs are maybe not ready to overwhelm the opponent, kick first and field the Deathroller at the start of the 2nd half unless you're up against a really smashy team and you have to kick their teeth in straightaway or get beat up. Against those teams (and that was my point that got so controversial) it's often receive-first-or-get-killed.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:49 am

Generally with Dark Elves, I kick first, try to get a turnover and score, than get a 2-0 lead in the second half. Or harry the other team into scoring and equalize in the first half, win in the second.

However, almost everyone in my league does this, so I started to receive, score with 3-4 turns remaining, and watch my opponent take risks to score without many turns left. This left more opportunities to get turnovers and go into the second half up 2-0!

Then the opponent needs to concentrate again on scoring quickly, so he can't waste time bashing and caging.

But all in all... I agree with Fen. I just mix it up sometime so my opponents don't get too comfortable. Oh, and sometimes I don't win the toss

monolith · Post by **monolith** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:15 am

It's a situational decision based on your team make up versus theirs. Sometimes receiving is better, other times kicking.

With my Khemri team, I prefer to kick first, then beat the ever loving snot out of whatever's on the LOS. Defense is all about giving your opponent a way to score that's as risky as you can make it, while the rest of your players get to work on attrition.

Sure, take that block, those 3 dodge rolls, and that 2-dice against block. If it works, you got lucky enough to score. If not, I've positioned my players, my entire team, to capitalize and destroy everything in their path.

I've played Blood Bowl long enough to understand my own strengths and weaknesses as a coach. I'm not the kind of guy who can fiddle about with elves. I'm not interested in rolling any more dice than I have to, unless they're the blocking kind. I play simple, blunt blood bowl, and love every minute of it. That said, I could see situations where I would choose to recieve first off. Probably versus dwarfs with my khemri team. As long as they had no deathroller. Early on in development versus chaos, skaven, or any other team with mutation access.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:56 pm

mattgslater wrote:My Pro Elves just spanked a Dwarf team that did the same calculation a few weeks ago, because he couldn't keep his grip on the ball; his Runner got the ball, but couldn't get it to the pocket fast enough, and he got exactly two blocks with the Deathroller before I scored on him and Count Zamboni went bye-bye. A a Longbeard ejected and a lucky casualty on his Runner in the next drive, and we were on the way to a 6-0 rout; there's not much that Dwarfs can do when down by 3 men against an Elf team.

Kicking first against a Dwarf team with a Deathroller can be awful... or not. If you're well into the season and the Dwarfs have not only enough Guard to shove the opponent all over but also enough MB to complement the Deathroller as well, then I agree; you can sometimes wreck an opponent so hard that they have no hope of scoring on their drive, KOs or not. If the opponent can turn the ball over, though, they can effectively take out one of your guys when they score. If you think your Dwarfs are maybe not ready to overwhelm the opponent, kick first and field the Deathroller at the start of the 2nd half unless you're up against a really smashy team and you have to kick their teeth in straightaway or get beat up. Against those teams (and that was my point that got so controversial) it's often receive-first-or-get-killed.

Well, you got real lucky. lol. I'd still choose to receive against a deathroller team, knock out a few players, and hope the deathroller has to come in for turn 7 or 8 in the first half.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:48 pm

datalorex wrote:Well, you got real lucky. lol.

Agreed, but I'll take it. And if he hadn't given me the opportunity, I wouldn't have been able to take it.

I'd still choose to receive against a deathroller team, knock out a few players, and hope the deathroller has to come in for turn 7 or 8 in the first half.

Who in heck would take out a Secret Weapon on turn 7 of the first half? If they do, they deserve to lose. And how do you control the clock against a bashier opponent without getting killed? If you've got a bashy team like Orcs or Khemri, I see it, and I'd receive first too. You won't get them to set up the Deathroller on turn 7, but you might control the clock by beating them up while they don't have their Deathroller. if you've got a fast team, you have to score in the first 2-3 turns, then you set up to kick and they've got 6-7 turns to beat you up. If you hold too long, either you were going to win anyway or you'll be sorry.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:21 am

mattgslater wrote:
Who in heck would take out a Secret Weapon on turn 7 of the first half? If they do, they deserve to lose. And how do you control the clock against a bashier opponent without getting killed?

Noone would "chose" to play a SW on turn 7, but if they are only playing 12 or 13 players, and you KO (or worse) a few of them in the first half, then they are forced to field 11 players (even if they are SWs) when they line up on turn 7 or 8. I've seen it several times with Goblin teams where the SW have to come out for 1 or 2 turns at the end of the half.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:53 pm

Yeah, but Goblins aren't Dwarfs. You can really only rely on taking about 1 off the board in that time frame. If you have a really grindy team, I admit it will work a lot, and I totally agree that you should receive first if you think you can use early momentum to smash your opponent into a disadvantage over the first half (he may respond by fielding his Deathroller then, which is also a good thing). If you have a speedy team, I still don't see how you're going to get the clock to run in your favor. Against a Goblin team, sure. Whatever. Let me know when you're done.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:04 pm

mattgslater wrote:Yeah, but Goblins aren't Dwarfs. You can really only rely on taking about 1 off the board in that time frame. If you have a really grindy team, I admit it will work a lot, and I totally agree that you should receive first if you think you can use early momentum to smash your opponent into a disadvantage over the first half (he may respond by fielding his Deathroller then, which is also a good thing). If you have a speedy team, I still don't see how you're going to get the clock to run in your favor. Against a Goblin team, sure. Whatever. Let me know when you're done.

The only reason I haven't seen it with a dwarf team is because i have never played a dwarf team with a deatroller, but the last time I played a dwarf team and received the ball first, I took out 3 of 12 dwarves by the end of the first half, so he would have had to field that deathroller against his will in that case.

I'm just saying you always want to receive first with dwarf teams with deathrollers.