What Next For A Human Thrower?

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:16 pm

I'd definately take block. Not just to protect the thrower though. I use my thrower as a safety. He stays back in case someone breaks through my line and heads for the endzone. With block, it's easier to take the ballcarrier down. Stripball is an option as well. You don't always have to go with offensive skills on your throwers.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:43 pm

datalorex wrote:I'd definately take block. Not just to protect the thrower though. I use my thrower as a safety. He stays back in case someone breaks through my line and heads for the endzone. With block, it's easier to take the ballcarrier down. Stripball is an option as well. You don't always have to go with offensive skills on your throwers.

This is the problem with Block. Everyone MUST have it. This guy is a laser armed thrower. He should have skills that benefit that. Sadly Block has to get stuck on him.

It sucks!

I'd give him safe throw because that's what he does and he should have it.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:33 pm

An important characteristic for an American Footbal QB is willingness to block on a running play, and willingness to run the ball himself if a pass becomes impossible. The Block skill is a very fluffy one for a QB, and is totally not a bad idea in BB either.

I'm reversing myself here and offering instead a mild recommendation for Block. I still think NoS is a great skill. If you can pop the ball free with a Catcher or Blitzer in deep, all you have to do is put it somewhere with no more than 1 TZ, get your Thrower there and then you can score... hmmm. I think it was the elf in me talking. If you're in more than one TZ you can't PU reliably (though you can try in 2); if you're in one TZ, you can still throw a short pass on a 3+, so really NoS is only +1 even when you use it. Hmmm. It is a great skill and all, but it does require a risky strategy to use right and even then it's not overwhelming on an AG3 player with big passing bonuses. However, it is a lot of fun. If not NoS, I say Block over Safe Throw, but either would be a safe choice.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:48 pm

mattgslater wrote:An important characteristic for an American Footbal QB is willingness to block on a running play, and willingness to run the ball himself if a pass becomes impossible. The Block skill is a very fluffy one for a QB, and is totally not a bad idea in BB either.

That's total BS. Their blocks are simply throwing themselves down as a sort of speedbump, if that. Block would be a good skill for them but there isn't one who can afford to put himself in harms way and NONE of them are skilled at making the tackle, nor would anyone really want them to damage themselves doing so... unless they suck at QB anyway. *cough* Ron Mexico*cough*

It's fun to watch but those aren't good, passing QBs. Marino, (old) Favre, Montana, that guy from Denver. You know, real quarterbacks?

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:54 pm

You mean the ones who took Safe Throw? Yeah, that works too.

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:55 pm

mattgslater wrote:An important characteristic for an American Footbal QB is willingness to block on a running play, and willingness to run the ball himself if a pass becomes impossible. The Block skill is a very fluffy one for a QB, and is totally not a bad idea in BB either.

I'm reversing myself here and offering instead a mild recommendation for Block. I still think NoS is a great skill. If you can pop the ball free with a Catcher or Blitzer in deep, all you have to do is put it somewhere with no more than 1 TZ, get your Thrower there and then you can score... hmmm. I think it was the elf in me talking. If you're in more than one TZ you can't PU reliably (though you can try in 2); if you're in one TZ, you can still throw a short pass on a 3+, so really NoS is only +1 even when you use it. Hmmm. It is a great skill and all, but it does require a risky strategy to use right and even then it's not overwhelming on an AG3 player with big passing bonuses. However, it is a lot of fun. If not NoS, I say Block over Safe Throw, but either would be a safe choice.

The problem in your scenario (which I think you acknowledge) is that the thrower has to pick the ball in TZs, where NoS doesn't help. So I would not take NoS on that thrower.

Even though block is always a good choice, I'd be inclined to develop his mobility and passing capabilities. +MA, Dodge, Sure Feet, Safe Throw, etc...

And I wouldn't use my star thrower as a safety. He's on the bench on defence (as in American football, the QB is on the bench on defence, not playing safety). Human Blitzers and Catchers (with a few skills) are very good safeties. You can still develop a second, defensive thrower to play on defence. He would get block earlier. And eventually, NoS could be useful on that thrower (for the scenario that matt suggested ...), but only later ...

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:00 pm

mattgslater wrote:You mean the ones who took Safe Throw? Yeah, that works too.

Sadly, Safe Throw is really up to the receivers in the NFL and QB's seem to loose skills. Aging sucks in real life too.

bleeding green and gold....

Rituro · Post by **Rituro** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:32 pm

Snew wrote:This is the problem with Block. Everyone MUST have it. This guy is a laser armed thrower. He should have skills that benefit that. Sadly Block has to get stuck on him. It sucks!

Calm down... Block is not being "stuck on" my star Thrower. I have enough common sense to load Maxi up with offensive skills and then keep him away from trouble, as opposed to giving him Block and wading into POW territory.

I might put Block on Kurt, my backup thrower, but only after he picks up Strip Ball and Hail Mary Pass, because....

Cramy wrote:You can still develop a second, defensive thrower to play on defence.

...exactly. If I'm kicking the ball, Maximillian takes a seat and rests his throwing arm. Kurt (a.k.a "Kurt the Drunk", due to an unfortunate accident involving red paint being left on the brush during the skin painting

) is only on the pitch to provide the counter-attack should I pop the ball free; otherwise, there'd be an expendable lineman taking his place.

(Just for reference, my 12-man roster is the starter BB kit team. Before everyone has an aneurysm, yes, I do plan on buying more models once I've scraped some change together.

)

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:11 pm

It's not you. My problem is with the Block skill's effect on the game. Because of it most people will say something like WHAT?!? You don't have BLOCK yet?!? r u a n00b?!? and then their eyes will bug out and they may spit bile. Sometimes their head will spin around and a forked tongue may split the air in front of your face. Such is the power Block has over coaches. It affects coaches of all skill levels too.

And they think their team is so unique because the have so many skill choices. Hey, guess what. I saw a team just like yours over there.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:03 am

Snew wrote:It's not you. My problem is with the Block skill's effect on the game. Because of it most people will say something like WHAT?!? You don't have BLOCK yet?!? r u a n00b?!? and then their eyes will bug out and they may spit bile. Sometimes their head will spin around and a forked tongue may split the air in front of your face. Such is the power Block has over coaches. It affects coaches of all skill levels too.

And they think their team is so unique because the have so many skill choices. Hey, guess what. I saw a team just like yours over there.

I have a nurgle team with no block after 5 games. I've decided not to take block until each player has a mutation skill first! I'm liking the challenge of not having block when everyone else in the league does. And I'm undefeated with the team so far.

But for the human team, I like the idea of developing a second thrower for your safety duties. Block, stripball, and hail mary are goood choices for it. Just remember you can't strip the ball and then pick it up and heave it down the field on the same turn. So I guess you are hoping to strip it and pray your opponent doesn't pick it up on his turn, and then you pick it up on your turn and heave it down the field?

I know on my Norse team I play with both throwers at the same time so that one can strip the ball away and the other can pick it up and throw it. I don't have a second thrower on my human team yet.

Rituro · Post by **Rituro** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:09 pm

datalorex wrote:Just remember you can't strip the ball and then pick it up and heave it down the field on the same turn. So I guess you are hoping to strip it and pray your opponent doesn't pick it up on his turn, and then you pick it up on your turn and heave it down the field?

Ooh, thanks for the reminder. That's my strategy, pretty much. The only problem will be keeping the Extra Arms-Sure Hands slangor at bay, but what's Blood Bowl without a few challenges?

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:50 pm

Rituro wrote:
datalorex wrote:Just remember you can't strip the ball and then pick it up and heave it down the field on the same turn. So I guess you are hoping to strip it and pray your opponent doesn't pick it up on his turn, and then you pick it up on your turn and heave it down the field?
Ooh, thanks for the reminder. That's my strategy, pretty much. The only problem will be keeping the Extra Arms-Sure Hands slangor at bay, but what's Blood Bowl without a few challenges?

And IMO, that's why Strip Ball is not such a good skill for the second thrower. The player who blitzes can't pick-up and throw, as a blitz and a pass are two separate actions. You want a Blitzer or a Catcher with Block and Strip Ball to blitz the ball carrier and make him drop the ball. You then want your defensive thrower to go pick-up the ball and throw it to a waiting catcher down field.

So on the blitzer, you will want Block, Strip Ball, maybe Wrestle. Dodge can help you get to the ball carrier too. If you get and AG increase, then leap is an interesting choice as well (although this is more of an Elf strategy). The defensive thrower will benefit from skills like Dodge, Accurate, NoS, Safe Throw, maybe Strong Arm (although I would take Dodge first if I get a double).

Brokje · Post by **Brokje** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:15 am

I would go with skills to enhance his throwing, and, as Cramy rightly mentioned, get a second defensive thrower.

I would not go with Nerves of Steel. You dont want this guy to end up next to an opponent! Double 1's do occur, and then you wil; have a problem...

Anyway, dont listen to me. I just posted here to see my new avatar...

Cheers!
M

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:43 pm

Snew wrote: That's total BS. Their blocks are simply throwing themselves down as a sort of speedbump, if that. Block would be a good skill for them but there isn't one who can afford to put himself in harms way and NONE of them are skilled at making the tackle, nor would anyone really want them to damage themselves doing so... unless they suck at QB anyway. *cough* Ron Mexico*cough* It's fun to watch but those aren't good, passing QBs. Marino, (old) Favre, Montana, that guy from Denver. You know, real quarterbacks?

Umm... "Block" is the skill you take when you want "speedbump who's good at not getting hurt" without a doubles roll, and yes, many QBs learn the real-world version of just that by necessity. What you see there is the fact that the QB is just about exactly as good as the 5 guys in front of him. QBs that look like bad QBs are often the ones who can take a hit; it's not that they're bad QBs, it's that they're QBs with overmatched lines or receivers who can't get open.

[Football rant] People often blame the QB when things aren't going right, but he's really the 6th-most important player on the offense, because he's only as good as the guys who protect him. The best teams in the NFL have great O-lines and one or two really special players behind them: the Colts and Chargers have what has to be the two best lines in the NFL, and they win lots of games because that lets them maximize their top-notch QB (Colts) or RB/TE (Chargers). LaDainian Tomlinson is a great player and all, sure, and he's earned a spot in the Hall of Fame (man, I bet the Chargers are glad they picked him over Michael Vick!), but my Granny could average 4 yards a carry behind that line, and she died in '98! Phil Rivers, having never started an NFL game before last season, got a Pro Bowl nod, not because he's so phenomenal (promising, maybe, but last year Tom Brady and Carson Palmer both had better stats on lesser teams), but because anyone can throw a TD pass with Dielmann and Goff and Hardwick and co. in front of him. The Broncos don't care who their RB is and make just about no investment in him, and they still have a 1000-yard guy every season. The Eagles lose Donovan Freakin' McNabb in the middle of the season and don't seem to notice. Conversely, look at teams with crappy O-lines. There's all kinds of crazy talent on the Raiders and Texans and Bucs and Lions, but they lose, lose, lose, lose, lose. The Raiders had one of the best defenses in the NFL last year, and they still went 2-14. Wonder why? [/football rant]

As far as tackles, I never said anything about tackles. In football, if a QB gets a tackle it's because of a turnover, pretty much by definition; I wouldn't imagine that a QB would learn much about tackling, and neither would any other offensive player. OTOH, a BB Thrower plays on an 11-16 man roster, not a 53 man roster, so he'll often have to play both sides of the ball; with his high value to your offense, pick-up/pass ability and presumable lack of corner skills, he's most likely to line up as a safety. Safeties tackle, and he'll use Block a lot in that capacity if he gets used that way.

Rituro · Post by **Rituro** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:18 pm

I appreciate the energy and advice, but could we please limit the non-BB items to the Off Topic thread? Thanks.