Second double on LRB4 Ogre ...

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:05 pm

Now this might be interesting ...

In my LRB4 Orge Team (TR208, 8 Ogres, 6 Gobbos, 3RR), one of my Ogres (leading the leagúe with 11 CAS) rolled his second double in the third skill, but also aged (-AV). So he's currently 5 5 2 8 MB, TS, TTM, BH, Block, Break Tackle, *double* (4/4).

Now what to take:
- Tackle: i usually get 3DB when i need it, but still nice against the Dodgers, (we have 3 HE, 1 DE team, also Vampires, Ghouls on Undead and Necro, the odd Gobbo on Orc).
- Pro: 50% less Bonehead plus a chance to RR non critical 3DB blocks to a better result and a desperate chance for a RR if my 3 Team RRs are used up.
- Kick: might help to win the odd game when i can throw a gobbo after a deep kick.
- Standfirm: Irritating, but useful?
- Sidestep: Even more irritating ... but more a skill for a guard.
- Dodge ... nah ...
- Sure Feet: Might be worth it, i GFI a lot with this guy, he's my main blitzer until the ST6, Block Ogre gets break tackle.

Anything else? Currently i favor Tackle ...

here`s the rest of the team: http://www.bblh.de/team_view.php?team_id=94

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:02 am

Dodge, Pro, Frenzy or Tackle, in descending order, that's what I say.

Dodge mixes really well with the improvements he's already got. You'll get lots of good use out of it and it will make your Ogre very tough to deal with.

Pro makes your Ogre less unreliable, which matters a lot.

Frenzy makes him better at what he does best, and he's got the stuff to make the most of it.

Tackle makes him a lock to clobber most ST2 Catchers and stunties, and he can even use a Blitz to take down one and hold another in place.

Dodge is by far the best option for this guy, IMO. I totally wouldn't fault anybody for going with Pro or (in a Dodge-heavy league) Tackle, but if I weren't going to do Dodge, I might get Frenzy (again, Pro might be a better idea, but it's too conservative for my tastes).

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:06 am

Oops. LRB4, so no Frenzy for him. Dodge, then, and if not Dodge, Pro. Tackle is a good option if little guys/ST2 catchers abound, but even then, you won't get any more for it than you would for Pro or Dodge.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:14 am

I'm torn between Pro, and Stand firm or Dodge.

I guess I'd probably go Pro. When you need this guy to Blitz, or whatever, it would be nice to have some counter when the 1 comes up!

But Stand Firm and Dodge would both allow you to avoid turnovers when Dodging away and trying to blitz someone, so they would be on my list as well.

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:01 am

As it's LRB 4, I'd think hard on stand firm, it's a great skill as you can do risk free dodging and be a roadblock.

Dodge would also be a good choice though, as it would (obviously) let you reroll any failed break tackle dodges and make him a lot harder to take down (ST5 blodger-eek!).

Tackle isn't bad though, especially if there are a lot of dodgers in the league.

Pro's good, but personally I'd rather have one of the above

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:09 am

Stand Firm or Pro are the obvious ones. Sidestep is a nice way to obstruct your opponent, but I guess I'd still prefer Stand Firm over sidestep. Since he is your Blitzer it means he does a lot of stuff instead of just being a road block, so he would make the most dice rolls on your team, and also most bonehead rolls. So Pro?

Tante Kaethe · Post by **Tante Kaethe** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:04 pm

Hi Tim,

do you already have an Oger with Sure Hands? If not, I'd highly recommend Sure Hands, esp. as he already has Block and Break Tackle! You don't have to waste Rerolls for picking up the ball and your opponents will have a very hard time tying to take the ball away from him.

Otherwise, I find Dodge tempting too, it combines nicely with Break Tackle and he will be much harder to take down (good for him with his -AV).

Cheers

Tante Käthe

stormmaster1 · Post by **stormmaster1** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:36 pm

what role do you want him to take in your team and what does your team struggle to deal with. Dodge may be good for keeping him on his feet and combines with break tackle, but if your problems are strip balling wardancers or using re-rolls on the pick up then sure hands is the answer. If you still can't nail annoying blodging gits like most elves then tackle may be invaluble. If he's your main ball carrier then i'd go for sure hands. But it just depends on your own style of play.

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:17 pm

Surehands!!!

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:25 pm

You can't go wrong with Dodge or Pro. Since he only has 8 armor now, Dodge will keep him alive longer (which is important if you are short on cash and will find it hard to replace him). If you have the money and the league doesn't have a lot of tackle, Pro should be your choice.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:52 pm

Very interesting opinions ...

Surehands is kind of out of scope as i have an AG+, Break Tackle Ogre and another Surehands Ogre (1 SPP missing for next skill which will be BT on regular, Block on Double). Additionally i start to leave most of the ball handling to the Gobbos because they need some skills too (i kept them on a strict SPP diet for the first games until i had enough Ogres to efficently protect them).

It's interesting to see how many people would go for Dodge. It never occured to me as interesting as my Ogres do not get hit very often unless they carry the ball (usually people try to get away from the Ogres and target the Gobbos). So often i do not have to dodge at all for my blitz and if 2+ is an OK risk even without the dodge RR.

The reason i favor tackle is because there's plenty of blodgers in the league that drive me crazy. I still remember the undead opponent who has 3 Blodge, Sidestep Ghouls that stopped my offence on their own, as i was not able to roll a POW even on 3DB. Tackle would make him a killer for this type of player.

Pro, however, is very tempting ... reliability is something that's very valuable on an Ogre team. And it gives me a 50% second chance to do damage on those nasty triple pushes.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:37 pm

Tim wrote:
Pro, however, is very tempting ... reliability is something that's very valuable on an Ogre team. And it gives me a 50% second chance to do damage on those nasty triple pushes.

That's my thought too....

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:50 pm

Now i did the numbers ...

Code: Select all

                      BH pass  POW Rate  Delta
3DB
Nothing vs. Blodge     83,3%     35,1% 
Pro vs. Blodge         90,3%     47,2%   +34,5%
Tackle vs. Blodge = 
Nothing vs. Block      83,3%     58,6%   +67,0%
Pro vs. Block          90,3%     71,4%   +21,7%

2DB                    
Nothing vs. Blodge     83,3%     25,5%  
Pro vs. Blodge         90,3%     35,6%   +39,7%
Tackle vs. Blodge =
Nothing vs. Block      83,3%     46,3%   +81,8%
Pro vs. Block          90,3%     59,4%   +28,4%

So for a Bonehead player, you could say that Tackle is roughly twice as effective as Pro in bringing down a Blodger. However, Pro signifcantly raises the POW rate against non-Blodgers as well. Additionally Pro gives you a lower BH-rate, a higher Push rate and also helps at other actions like TTM or ballhandling, while tackle has the benefit of negating dodge RRs.

So i think i'll go for Pro as it's the better allround skill.

Btw. can i use Pro in the opponents turn? In LRB4 it says "Once per team turn, a Pro is allowed to re-roll any one dice roll he has made.". It doesn't say "own team turn". If this is the case i could use Pro on my Thick Skull rolls (again: LRB4, so a 4+ roll), lowering my effective KO rate by 25%.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:30 pm

I'm pretty sure you can use Pro on a thick skull roll, also you can use it for interceptions or catching bouncing balls

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:53 pm

Thanks. I'm already leading the league in interceptions (2

), so this might help ...