Starting Woodelves in developed LRB5 league

[Tante Kaethe]

Hi there,

I've already looked into the "Starting Rosters..."-Thread and used the Search-function but I'd still highly appreciate your views on how to start a brand new Woodelf-Team in a developed league (many teams around TV 170+).

My idea of a starting roster would be:

1 Wardancer 120K
1 Treeman 120K
1 Catcher 90K
8 Lineelves 560K
2 RRs 100K
1 FF 10K

The main reason for including the Treeman is to save Linos from being punished on the LOS on defense. If all teams were to start from scratch I'd rather take two WDs but with some experienced Bash-Teams around he might save a few Lineelves' lifes, saving money in the long run.

What do you think?

Please note that I've NEVER played elves of any type or color before (of course I've played against them many times ). So, if you have some further advice please let me know .

Cheers

Tante Käthe

[mepmuff]

Two things I think you should take into consideration:

1) You'll be playing most games with inducements at the start. You can use these to help your lino's survive either by inducing line fodder or a healing hand.
2) 1 Catcher and 1 wardancer make excellent targets. Your opponent will target one of them based on his own preference and with a well developed team will likely succeed. I would consider getting two of the same positional instead of one of each.
3) the element of surprise...

[Duke Jan]

I would start with a tree and 10 linos. Especially with the inducements you're likely to get. Freeboot some catchers to act as targets while your linos develop. With AG4 and some re-rolls they should be able to gather a few SPP rather rapidly. Freebooters aren't yours, so who cares if they die. Never take more than 3 journeymen. Especially if you can go up to or over 11 players by inducing positionals or stars. 3 journeymen are the perfect wood elf LOS. You will only be receiving the blows there anyway.

Save money and buy your positionals 2 at a time.

[Kheldar]

I would start with a tree and 10 linos. Especially with the inducements you're likely to get. Freeboot some catchers to act as targets while your linos develop. With AG4 and some re-rolls they should be able to gather a few SPP rather rapidly. Freebooters aren't yours, so who cares if they die. Never take more than 3 journeymen. Especially if you can go up to or over 11 players by inducing positionals or stars. 3 journeymen are the perfect wood elf LOS. You will only be receiving the blows there anyway.

Save money and buy your positionals 2 at a time.

I think this is not the worst approach. You'll have enough rerolls, and can buy an apo if interested from the start (I would not do this). The STARS you can induce are killers.

[Tante Kaethe]

Thanks for your advice so far !

1) You'll be playing most games with inducements at the start. You can use these to help your lino's survive either by inducing line fodder or a healing hand.

Hmm, you're right about the inducements - maybe I should induce a mercenary-treeman against the bashers . He's got "Loner" anyway and who cares if he gets chopped down .

2) 1 Catcher and 1 wardancer make excellent targets. Your opponent will target one of them based on his own preference and with a well developed team will likely succeed. I would consider getting two of the same positional instead of one of each.

Save money and buy your positionals 2 at a time.

I've never understood the "one is a target, two are a threat"-argument When I play with my Orcs against Elves or Rats I always try to take out key players, regardless whether there's 1, 2, 3, whatever of them around. Of course two Wardancer are better than one but IMO it doesn't change the fact that any such player will be targeted if possible.

I would start with a tree and 10 linos.

I understand your logic behind this setup but it's the first time play Elves - I want to use some of the super-players they have access to . So maybe 2 WDs, 1 Catcher, 8 Linos, 2 RRs, 1FF?

Thanks and keep it coming

Tante Käthe

[kithor2002]

Under LRB 4 I used a starting lineup like:

1 WD
10 Lineelves
2 RR
7 FF

Now I would go like :
1 WD
10 Lineelves
3 RR
1 FF
1 AS
1 CL

In your first game you should take care of your WD (and also in your further ones ).
After the first match buy an apo.
Especially at the beginning start to develop your lienelves and drop the injured and/or rokkies for the positionals.
I would try to keep the TV low so that you recieve a lot inducements (like additional apothecaries or starplayers). So I won't go over 12 or 13 players at the beginning....

[Tante Kaethe]

Hi Kithor

Now I would go like :
1 WD
10 Lineelves
3 RR
1 FF
1 AS
1 CL

I've been thinking about this setup too (starting with 3 RRs is really tempting) but buying a third reroll later costs only 100K, the second WD costs 120K... And having two WDs will help a lot, esp. on defense.

I would try to keep the TV low so that you recieve a lot inducements (like additional apothecaries or starplayers). So I won't go over 12 or 13 players at the beginning....

I don't think that I will have to worry about keeping my players under 13 - you and the other coaches will kill/maim enough of the woodies to keep the number down

[Mad Jackal]

I still stand by this start.

2 Dancers
1 Tree
8 Line elves
1 re-roll.
30k split FF CH Ast or cash for apoth.

1st purchase is the apoth.
then re-roll number two.
Replace dead linemen with loners or positionals depending on current cash flow.

Reasons.

I'd rather buy the re-roll at 100k than a WarDancer or Tree at 120 k later
And, after getting the induced wandering apoth (or two) you can induce a team re-roll for 100k to play with 2.

And Two WarDancers is important to threaten established teams with. I want them both to have strip ball ASAP, which means not waiting several games to buy one or two and then try to skill them. If the teams are very established with big strength guys you might also want one of them to dauntless.

Winning games is very important in the LRB 5.0 . At early stages (unskilled team level) the WarDancers are your best asset and horses.
Not only does the +1 to winnings matter, so does the re-rolling the winnings roll ability. the Tree is there to hold the LOS and save linemen from repeated abuse thus trying to reduce the number of journeymen taken and to keep your squad above 11 men.

[Duke Jan]

I have found that developing your linos is a good way to build up a wood elf team. If every player is a pain in the rear your war dancers stand a better chance of surviving. Or if the opponent still targets your war dancer he lost. War dancers and catchers will indeed get targeted anyway. Still, if they are with more the opponent has to choose which one to target.

Re-rolls ... you may not need them but they make leaping so much better.

[Mad Jackal]

I have found that developing your linos is a good way to build up a wood elf team. If every player is a pain in the rear your war dancers stand a better chance of surviving. Or if the opponent still targets your war dancer he lost. War dancers and catchers will indeed get targeted anyway. Still, if they are with more the opponent has to choose which one to target.

Re-rolls ... you may not need them but they make leaping so much better.

I agree about skilled Line elves. Which is why I have 8. If the WarDancers free up the ball then linemen can go in pick it up and pass for the TD. Or just plain pass for spp. I still try to target my WarDancers to 6 spp though ASAP.

Kick on the 1st line elf. 8 in 11 chance of a lineman getting the mvp game 1 means one spp in game two and Kick for sure after 2 (8 of 11 times).
Then thinks like Block, Dodge, Fend, Sure Hands, Wrestle etc are all great skills to get while you are buying the 50k apoth. Then the 100k re-roll. And maybe the next 100k re-roll for your 3rd.

250k of winnings is something like 4, 5 or 6 games of winnings if not more. So aside from the 3 main ones to start you've got no positionals to "steal" your linemens SPP and thus skills.

The double edged sword in the LRB 5.0 though is that too-skilled linemen increase your TV to the SE levels quickly and unless you continue to win and roll good winnings, you hit the cap much sooner than your opponents and the drag is really harsh. I've found it hard have enough money to pro-actively cut players to cull TV.

And as for re-rolls I agree. But I've found you only need to Leap twice a match if you play it right. Once in each half, and one re-roll is enough for that. (to start)

[mattgslater]

Hmmm... I don't think Spiralling Expenses are important. I do think that starting with the players who make the diff is. Against a TR170 opponent, you can induce a Merc Tree (15), a Re-Roll (10) 2x Apo (20) and still have 30 left over. This means you can afford to concentrate your funds in good positionals.

I like that 8 lino, 2 Wd idea, but rather than starting with a Tree, I'd be likely to induce one. You could instead go for a Catcher, 1 FF and 2 RRs. In a free FF league, or if you're pretty sure you're always giving up FAME, you might be better off just banking 10k. Your first purchase in this case should be an Apoth, then a second Catcher, then a Tree, then you're done except for replacing dead/devalued players with Throwers.

[Aliboon]

I'd also go with 2 Wardancers to begin with, they've got the skills to survive and help you win matches. I'd also go for 9 linemen and 2 rerolls, either saving the rest, or splitting it between FF, CLs or ACs.

Woodie catchers are good, but I've never had enough of them to use them as grunners (4 of which really make the skaven team), and given that Woodie lino's are AG4 anyway, they can do a lot of fiddly stuff anyway. I'd hold off on tthe catchers until my linos had developed a bit.

You should induce the tree to begin with, he will save elven lives. After the APO, he'd probably be my 1st purchase, unless I'd lost a lot of other players. Then I'd want the 3rd, possibly 4th reroll, then catchers and throwers if you ever have the money....

Your wardancers only really need strip ball, after that, pretty much anything would be good. Juggernaught on doubles would be very nice too. Wardancers are there to turn the ball over and then either score themselves, or hopefully allow a lino to, depending on the situation.

Kick on a lino 1st off will be invaluable, your others should get a mix of block, dodge and wrestle, plus maybe a sneaky git, dirty player.

I think woodies are the most fun team to play, certainly if you don't get the snot beaten out of you. Leaping in, stripping the ball and then pulling off amazing plays to get the ball to the other end of the pitch, with a reasonable chance of sucess is great (at least when you pull it off...).

Good luck!

[Duke Jan]

The double edged sword in the LRB 5.0 though is that too-skilled linemen increase your TV to the SE levels quickly and unless you continue to win and roll good winnings, you hit the cap much sooner than your opponents and the drag is really harsh. I've found it hard have enough money to pro-actively cut players to cull TV.

Aten't one or two injured skilled players is a good way to avoid SE? Very easy with wood elves. I don't think I've played a single game with the full line-up after the first one in 10 games.

[datalorex]

I still stand by this start.

2 Dancers
1 Tree
8 Line elves
1 re-roll.
30k split FF CH Ast or cash for apoth.

1st purchase is the apoth.
then re-roll number two.
Replace dead linemen with loners or positionals depending on current cash flow.

Come on. If he's entering an established league, he can induce a merc treeman. Buy more positionals! Also, make sure you get some FF because your opponents will have 6 or more and you will be easily doubled up if you don't take 3 or more.

[PubBowler]

I've not played the inducement game with Wood Elves, which is maybe why I'm understanding why you wouldn't want to be inducing a 2nd wardancer instead of a tree?

A tree takes an age to skill up, has very little control about getting SPPs (other players you can avoid doing stuff with but you can't avoid blocking CAS with him) and is unlikely to die (both by virture of high ST & AV but also not being the target a WD is).
Isn't this pushing him more into the "I better start with this guy" category?