Question for Dwarf coaches.

stormmaster1 · Post by **stormmaster1** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:15 pm

GorTex wrote:My MBBL dwarf team has 13 + a Death roller.

I got the DR very late in the game--I don't like that it only lasts for one drive and my TV is high enough now that I rarely get inducements (heck, If I only give away 300k in inducements I'm lucky now-adays). TV is 232--and that is with two blockers missing next game!!!

http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBL/teamView.php?teamid=8

2 blockers missing the next game. That is why you need 13 players. 2 lucky armour/injury rolls and even dwarfs are 2 players down. Dwarfs then struggle to play their natural game if outnumbered.

stormmaster1 · Post by **stormmaster1** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:20 pm

as a reply to the original post: spend money on deathrollers, chainsaws and bribes. Make it fun. I found people don't get so annoyed about their players getting mashed if you do it in a more wacky way, i.e. secret weopons. If you can win the games easy then get less guard to frustrate your opponents less.

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:50 pm

stormmaster1 wrote:
2 blockers missing the next game. That is why you need 13 players. 2 lucky armour/injury rolls and even dwarfs are 2 players down. Dwarfs then struggle to play their natural game if outnumbered.

With journey men you will always start with 11, then its up to you to make sure the numbers stay in your advantage. Same as playing in a tournament.

Kheldar · Post by **Kheldar** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:05 am

I think he meant that the two missing one show, that even dwarfs get CAS in a game. And dwarfs do realy suck if outnumbered. Thats why he advices to have at least 13 players.

Journeymen are out of question in this context.

stormmaster1 · Post by **stormmaster1** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:05 pm

Kheldar wrote:I think he meant that the two missing one show, that even dwarfs get CAS in a game. And dwarfs do realy suck if outnumbered. Thats why he advices to have at least 13 players.

Journeymen are out of question in this context.

that's pretty much it. PLus journeymen are unskilled. Dwarfs are their best with lots of guard longbeards.

11 players is a risk for any team. Fast teams are more likely to suffer casualties, but also more able to cope when short-handed. Bashy teams, particularly slow ones like dwarfs and Khemri struggle if they suffer a few cas early on. I had one game versus Skaven with a TR 115 orc side that got 2 BOs cas'd before my second turn. PLus one KO lino. Okay i was unlucky, but i struggled badly for the rest of the game. Had i had a couple of linos in reserve i could have put up a better showing.

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:11 pm

I know Journeymen aren't going to be used in that example, what i was trying to say is that you will start every game with atleast 11 Dwarves no matter what. Then it is up to you to control the numbers game as much as you can. Journeymen are unskilled but that is ok, i'll take an unskilled blocker any day. Having 13-14 players on your team and expected all the linemen to have one skill, would mean your TV is pretty high.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:29 pm

stormmaster1 wrote:
that's pretty much it. PLus journeymen are unskilled. Dwarfs are their best with lots of guard longbeards.

That's the DUMBEST thing I've EVER heard. Dwarf Journeymen are better and more competent that most teams Blitzers after an upgrade. Plus, any team would be GREAT if they had LOTS of players with Block and Guard. It's statements like this that make me want to change Dwarves so dramatically that NO ONE wants to play them.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:19 pm

[quote="Snew]me want to change Dwarves so dramatically that NO ONE wants to play them.

[/quote]

Ah, Snews motivation becomes clear...

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:54 pm

Are you new. I've been talking about that for years. I love Dwarves in stories and fluff but I don't think they were properly realized when designed into this game. My rhetoric is mostly tongue-in-cheek but seeing powergamers talk about Dwarves really gets my hackles up.

Not ALL Dwarf players are powergamers but you can tell the ones that are and those guys should be given as little credit as possible. They'll soon loose interest and go find someone else's fun to ruin.

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:57 pm

You could get by with dwarves with only 12 players and rely on journemen to fill any holes due to losses--but only if you do not have a Death Roller on your team. If you have a DR and 10 dwarves (11 players), you guarantee you are going to be at 10 players after the 1st drive, and you won't be able to hire any journeymen.

Dwarf blockers are not equivalent to 'most teams Blizters with one upgrae' to start with. Yes, they have the Blitzer skills (block, tackle, AV9) plus the thick skull...

But they are SLOOOOOW. Most blitzers are as fast or faster then the linemen on the same team. Also, they are not very agile. Not the ideal blitzer material (the perfect player to stick on the LOS or corner of a cage--not the perfect player to blitz the opposing ball carrier in the middle of a cage or behind a line of screening players, or sacking the QB deep in the backfield).

as an aside: I don't think I'm a powergamer--but most powergamers don't think they are powergamers, IME. I'm a rules lawyer at heart (cut my teeth playing Star Fleet Battles against a group of rules lawyers) and I like to win any game I play (not that I win every time, but I do begin to get fustrated when I'm on a losing streak). The fun of Blood Bowl (and any game really) to me is the struggle to win the game against an opponent that is also trying to win. I really don't like playing against an opponent who is not trying to win the game--guess that makes me a power gamer in alot of ways.

monolith · Post by **monolith** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:43 pm

After 2 more games, 1 win, 1 loss, I'm sitting pretty at 11 players and skills on 3 of them. I lost 2-1 against necromantic because I couldn't cripple the werewolf or catch a pass, I beat the single scariest team in the league 3-0 in my last game.

Norse, 3-0 win, 1-1 casualties. Even on cas, but I managed to k.o. a few and push one into the crowd. I'm still yet to throw a foul, and am up 8-3 on casualties. This is the bogeyman team of the league, I had somewhere in the vicinity of 290k in inducements. Wasted about 200k on bloodweiser babes and some cards. If I'd done it right i'd have had a deathroller and a bribe instead. (Part of me felt wrong about that, most experienced coach in the league and I tend to hold back.) I have to admit, the induced apothecary was very nice indeed. Guard on 2 opposing minis is moot when placement and tactics leave them exposed. My opponent's dice rolls left much to be desired, he couldn't make a GFI roll in the second half.

I often feel in this league that I'm just trying to find the right block to make first. Once I've found it, I tend to just win. I'm running loose cages, just making sure that the ball carrier can jam it in in enough turns to matter. Scoring faster than I feel comfortable with is something to get used to, but I can just sack the opposing carrier and run the turnover in.

How am I ever to skill up my blitzers when there's better players for both of the roles they fill? I tend to blitz with my trollslayers or my runners depending on what needs killing. Should I run one or two downfield to handoff and get the td? They're excellent positionals, but I find myself using their extra agility and movement to dodge and place them in such a way as to get 2 dice where I couldn't before. Both my Runners have block now, I'd rather use them to block.

I have to agree with that sig. I just love dwarfs.