Beeing masochistic - Vampires in a LRB 5 league

[Meradanis]

I'm trying Vampires (again), and need some advice. It's going to be a long term league (probably more than 30 games for every team) with a cup after each season (approx. 9 games).

I'd like to start with the following roster:
2x Vampire (220k)
9x Thrall (360k)
5x Reroll (350k)
2x Fanfactor (20k)
1x Apo (50k)

Because of LRB5, I won't start with more than 11 players. Journeyman should help me with possible early losses.

Last time, I've tried with Pro for every Vampire. I don't think that's the best solution for them, because they need other essentia skills more badly. I thought about something like this:

2x Powerhouse Vamp: Block, Guard, Mighty Blow
1x Runner Vamp: Block, Catch, Dodge, Sure Feet
1x Ballhawk Vamp: Wrestle, Strip Ball, Leap

1x Ballcarrier Thrall: Sure Hands, Block
1x Kick Thrall: Kick, Block
3x LOS Thrall: Wrestle, Fend
1x Foul Thrall: Dirty Player
rest Normal Thrall: Block, Tackle

Double on a Thrall: Guard most times, maybe Dodge for Ballcarrier Thrall
Double on a Vamp: ??

Any advice is appreciated, not only about skill selection, also about tactics etc.

[Aliboon]

Don't think you need to worry about doubles on Vamps, GAS is plenty good (although maybe Leader....)

Not too sure about the Leap on the Ballhawk vamp-you'll already have a few hypnotic gazes to help you break the cage-I'd rather go Juggernaught.

Side-stepping guarders would be tasty, and may well be more useful than the MB.

Can't say I know too much about how to play vamps as I gave them up as too frustrating, but I'd say 11 players is too few. You will lose Thralls, so you will need replacements to avoid going undermanned.

Vamps are a good counter-attacking team. You don't have a huge amount of speed, so it is easier to score when the ball is in their half, therefore kick deep (with kick) and try to turn them over (which with HG shouldn't be "too" hard). Actually scoring with the vamps is quite difficult cos a cage will break down due to bloodlust and you aren't that quick to just score in a flash.

Obviously move a Thrall to where you want your vamp to go, esp if you want to use HG (a vamp can fail his bloodlust and still HG a player as long as he can then feed). This means at least your vamps will be where you want them to be.

Oh, and be lucky!

[falconeyed]

Get rid of a reroll and get to 12 players. Thralls die like nothing I've ever seen or heard of. They make skaven lineman and halflings look robust. Given the length of your league, I'd re-examine taking Pro at your first opportunity. Having to burn rerolls on Lust rolls instead of using them for failed blocks / dodges / ball handling is troublesome.

Also, if you really get in a bind with a Pro vamp and you fail the Pro roll, remember that you can use a team reroll to reroll the Pro roll.

As to giving a vampire Wrestle, I'd refer to every discussion on TBB regarding what will happen if you give a wardancer Wrestle. Same thing applies to vampires.

Doubles on a vamp makes him your defensive passer, I think. Give him Leader, Pass or Nerves of Steel. Might want to think about giving Pass to a thrall on doubles as well and hope he lives long enough to get to Sure Hands and Block.

[Grumbledook]

pro is a wasted skill for vamps

you take a lot of rerolls for a reason, most of the failed bloodlust you can usually except and go bite a thrall, you can still use hyp gaze

just learn to move a thrall to the correct spot first

the only time you really are going to want to reroll is for your blitz that turn, again on occasion this might not be important

as for ball handling once you picked the ball up or handed it off to a vamp you shouldn't have to worry about it

the most important skill is hypnotic gaze, learn to use this well and you really open the teams potential up

[PubBowler]

Even with journeymen I'd want more than 11 players in my starting lineup. You can't afford to go men down as thralls represent maneuverability and reliability for your vampires.

I'd drop a reroll, grab an extra thrall and push the rest into FF and staff to try and grab back that reroll through kick-off results.

[datalorex]

Even with journeymen I'd want more than 11 players in my starting lineup. You can't afford to go men down as thralls represent maneuverability and reliability for your vampires.

I'd drop a reroll, grab an extra thrall and push the rest into FF and staff to try and grab back that reroll through kick-off results.

I agree. You're bound to take out a thrall or two yourself. Make sure you have backup. With only 2 Vamps, you're rolling Bloodlust 16 times a half. That means you'll fail the BL roll a little less than 3 times a half. So you really don't need more than 3 or 4 RR to start. So drop a RR.

[The Ref]

I started my vampire team, the BATtling Cobras with 3 vamps, 5 rerolls and 8 thralls. No apoth - bought it first thing.

You can see how that went by checking out their match record. Well, at 8 games I'm still in the team building phase..

I've learned that 3 vamps are great, but I don't use more than 2 at the same time, leaving one as reserve and letting the thralls do the job.

I've sculpted my thralls to remind me to use them differently, as they're all alike..:
1 thrower
2 runners/blockers
1 safety
2 catchers
1 catcher with stick (cannon fodder)
2 tired ones, ready for the bite
1 kicker

I'll add some more thralls later on I think, maybe one more vamp..

I don't wanna use the pro skill, to much trouble to get the reroll... Block is much better!

Mostly a funny team to play, and thats it.. You have to use such long time in advancing your players that a more skilled but expensive team is easier to handle.. As I said, great fun though!

[Meradanis]

Even with journeymen I'd want more than 11 players in my starting lineup. You can't afford to go men down as thralls represent maneuverability and reliability for your vampires.

I'd drop a reroll, grab an extra thrall and push the rest into FF and staff to try and grab back that reroll through kick-off results.

I agree. You're bound to take out a thrall or two yourself. Make sure you have backup. With only 2 Vamps, you're rolling Bloodlust 16 times a half. That means you'll fail the BL roll a little less than 3 times a half. So you really don't need more than 3 or 4 RR to start. So drop a RR.

I've done my first match, lost 0:3 (1:3) against Necros. I would have lost this match regardless of my starting setup, Blitz! and 2x Perfect Defence against me, and my blocking dice seemed to roll Both Down all the time. My opponent, on the other hand, only did 4+ on almost any die roll throughout the whole game.

Thanks to some massive passing game when the game was already lost, I've been able to accumulate 6 SSP's on a Vampire, she's got Block now. Starting with an apo instead of the 12th man had been a good choice, the apo healed a dead Thrall. I've purchased a Thrall after the game, and I'm now with 2 Vampires and 10 Thralls for the next game. My next opponent will be an Elf team without any Skills, perhabs my Block Vamp will be of good use.

[Grumbledook]

Even with journeymen I'd want more than 11 players in my starting lineup. You can't afford to go men down as thralls represent maneuverability and reliability for your vampires.

I'd drop a reroll, grab an extra thrall and push the rest into FF and staff to try and grab back that reroll through kick-off results.

I agree. You're bound to take out a thrall or two yourself. Make sure you have backup. With only 2 Vamps, you're rolling Bloodlust 16 times a half. That means you'll fail the BL roll a little less than 3 times a half. So you really don't need more than 3 or 4 RR to start. So drop a RR.

this is nonsence

you don't have to move every player every turn, also rerolls double in cost after the first game

you can easily get more thralls at 40k i'd be surprised if you couldn't get one a game

compared to the cost of saving up for that extra reroll, its false economy

[datalorex]

Even with journeymen I'd want more than 11 players in my starting lineup. You can't afford to go men down as thralls represent maneuverability and reliability for your vampires.

I'd drop a reroll, grab an extra thrall and push the rest into FF and staff to try and grab back that reroll through kick-off results.

I agree. You're bound to take out a thrall or two yourself. Make sure you have backup. With only 2 Vamps, you're rolling Bloodlust 16 times a half. That means you'll fail the BL roll a little less than 3 times a half. So you really don't need more than 3 or 4 RR to start. So drop a RR.

this is nonsence

you don't have to move every player every turn, also rerolls double in cost after the first game

you can easily get more thralls at 40k i'd be surprised if you couldn't get one a game

compared to the cost of saving up for that extra reroll, its false economy

Buying all your RR upfront is the false economy! Otherwise, why don't ALL coaches buy 4 or 5 RR to start and just take 11 linemen?

You need a balance, that's why! You need a good starting lineup that can win NOW so that you skill up faster, earn more money faster, and stay alive more. Buying all your RR upfront means an inferior team, which means you lose early, make less money, skill up slower, and have more players killed and injured.

[Grumbledook]

not at all thats rubbish

the reason other teams don't do it cause of the cost of their players and that its harder to get away with, vamp teams just have vamps and linemen, other teams don't

the other factor is the reroll cost, other teams have cheaper reolls and coupled with the more expensive players they don't have a 100k difference after the first game like vamps do

the only other limited team is chaos and I've seen many a coach just take beastmen to maximise on rerolls

loads of elf teams start with 11 linemen and 3 rerolls for example

the fact is that you can afford thralls really easily and can easily play with just 2 vamps to start with

you have so many rerolls and at least ag3 across the board its easier for your players to be deceptive in who is going to be doing what the next turn

you have a team with throwers and catchers, you know the more likely players you want to mark etc


but hey what do I know, I just won our last league with a vamp team ;o

[Highlander]

Grumbledook,

Could you please post some of your skill choices and offensive and defensive tactics that you've found to be successful with your Vamps? Thanks.

[Rosaden]

you are the only one that made the right choise,
answer us and make any Vampire player happy.



Sorry for my english

[Grumbledook]

Block is useful both sides of the ball

I like to get one with frenzy as well

I didn't manage to take dodge on any, though I can see that be really useful, this may encourage you to use him as your only ball carrier though so be careful

I also like to get one with strip ball and another with tackle. With one assist vs st2 players ie gutter runner and catchers you get 3 dice blitzes on these guys

Thralls, take one with kick, then load up with block and guard, maybe another with tackle to set up the other side of the tackle vamp. You might want to take one with sure hands, though with all the rerolls I usually don't bother, you need to watch out for stripball players though, in these instances I will just use a vamp to carry the ball instead, or keep the thrall well screened from them.

Your team starts with NO proper skills so you really just need to load up on the basics.

Taking pro over any of these is a waste, how often do you really need to use pro and then it fails half of that time as well.

As I said before learn to use hypnotic gaze well and look for opportunities to use it. The fact the other player now has to activate a gazed player before he gets ungazed can really affect the order in which they use players. I love gazing players who have guard for example. It may force them into just taking a move action and then doing nothing with them to get their assist back in. This then takes the chance of a block away from that player, a bonus with all the AV7 you have on show.

Cages and hiding at the sideline behind a screen also no longer become such a defensive issue as they were before. Gaze one key player and then blitz another vamp in.

With so many skillz available to your vamps and their great flexability, you can't really go wrong with most skills, though make sure you cover the basics.

[Rosaden]

thank you