Block always "active"?

[Deathwing]

Hey guys!
You're talking Jervis' terrible 4th ed.

In BB2K there is no general rule putting restrictions on how many times you can use a skill. However, they did change some of the skills to only be used once per turn. But not all.

Martin

Don't confuse 'each skill may be used once per action' with 'one skill may be used once per action'.

LRB 1.3 pp34

2. All skills may be used once per action unless stated otherwise. Traits may be used an unlimited number of times per action unless stated otherwise. For example, a Beastman with Two Heads may add +1 to every Dodge roll he makes.

Now by a literal interpretation of this if you were being blocked by a frenzied player and he rolled POW/Push on the 1st block then you couldn't use dodge to negate another POW/Push on the 2nd block.

Or you can only use the Catch skill once to catch a bouncing ball - so if it bounces back to you, you can't use catch again.

Disagree on your 'literal' interpretation here..neither being blocked or catching a ball qualifies as an action.

[DoubleSkulls]

The LRB states skills may be used once per action. It doesn't state own action, just action. Therefore all players may only use their skills once during the course of any player's action.

The other thing that is not clear is when an action ends. I would say it is only finished when a new action is begun or the team turn ends.

All they need to do is change the wording to say "once during the player's action". It doesn't say this, but ought to. I think that is probably the intent of the rule, but isn't what is actually written.

[Deathwing]

The LRB states skills may be used once per action. It doesn't state own action, just action. Therefore all players may only use their skills once during the course of any player's action.

The other thing that is not clear is when an action ends. I would say it is only finished when a new action is begun or the team turn ends.

All they need to do is change the wording to say "once during the player's action". It doesn't say this, but ought to. I think that is probably the intent of the rule, but isn't what is actually written.

LOL! You're splitting hairs here mate! There lots of erroneous assumptions you could make from what the rulebook doesn't state!
Jump Up says I can stand up for free at the start of any action. It doesn't state my own action. Therefore....
'Therefore' my butt!

Is this a wind up?

[DoubleSkulls]

Is this a wind up?

Caught again!

Its just another example of how badly written the rules are. If these inconsistencies don't get pointed out then they'll never get fixed.

[Remco]

Last night I had a discussion about the subject and we decided to abandon it. Reason: if you allow the skills only to be used once, just try to remember who used block, tackle, guard, dodge etc.!!!! The game would be totally screwed up!

[plasmoid]

Hi all,
OOooops! Soory about that

Until yesterday I only had LRB1 for reference, and it doesn't mention the rule that skills can only be used once per action!
My mistake.

I honestly thaught/hoped that they would have removed that, once they saw what kinds of problems it caused in 4th ed.

Anyway, as far as I can see, only frenzy and multiblock is really affected by the rule, since every other affected skill has been reworded.

It is also important whether skills can only be used once on your own action, or 1 per any players action (which would be important when defending against frenzy for instance).

Either way, I find it strange that a multiblocker can use claw and fang(traits) against the victims, but not mighty blow (skill).

Oh - and somebody please clarify whether skills that affect the block dice (block, dodge, tackle) are *used* - or merely "affect" the roll - as someone suggested on this thread. (Seems unlikely, since the rulebook never mentions the distinction).

Sorry about the rant,
too many subjects to choose from
Martin

[DoubleSkulls]

Either way, I find it strange that a multiblocker can use claw and fang(traits) against the victims, but not mighty blow (skill).

You've got this wrong. The rule is each skill once per action - so you can use Block, mighty blow and piling on all in the same action.

What you can't do is leap twice, or make two rerolls on failed dodges.

[plasmoid]

Hi Ian Williams,
sorry, I worded that rather badly.

What I meant was that skills can be used once per action, but traits suffer from no such restriction. Therefore, when I multiblock a can use claw against both victims. However, I may only use might blow against one of them.
Clearer?

Martin

[Grumbledook]

heh i didn't know that, but then ive never used multiblock

[GalakStarscraper]

Hi Ian Williams,
sorry, I worded that rather badly.

What I meant was that skills can be used once per action, but traits suffer from no such restriction. Therefore, when I multiblock a can use claw against both victims. However, I may only use might blow against one of them.
Clearer?

Martin

Actaully Martin, the block is treated as a single action, so you can use Mighty Blow on both players. This was answered a while back, and I "think" its was part of the Q&A for the rules review.

And I agree with Deathwing, an action is something only applying to the player performing the action during his turn. Nothing limits skill usage outside of focusing ONLY on the active player during their action.

Galak

[Casper]

hmmm, you can use MB on both players hit in Multiple Block, you say...
- but what about piling on?
I see a problem in that, since you have to follow up to pile on, but following up into two sqaures? hmmmm... Galak need your advice on this one...

[Martin]

Hi Ian Williams,
sorry, I worded that rather badly.

What I meant was that skills can be used once per action, but traits suffer from no such restriction. Therefore, when I multiblock a can use claw against both victims. However, I may only use might blow against one of them.
Clearer?

Martin

Actaully Martin, the block is treated as a single action, so you can use Mighty Blow on both players. This was answered a while back, and I "think" its was part of the Q&A for the rules review.

And I agree with Deathwing, an action is something only applying to the player performing the action during his turn. Nothing limits skill usage outside of focusing ONLY on the active player during their action.

Galak

Actually that was Ian with that comment. I seem to be getting 'credited' for several questions in this thread that I didn't say. Though I will confess I'm the one that did start this excitement.

[Furelli]

Actually you may notice that Plasmoid actually signs the end of all his posts "Martin". This will be what is causing all the confusion.

Furelli.

[Martin]

Oh my confussion is solved!!! I'm not used to having another Martin on a board. Maybe I'll just blame the after affects of my cold I've had most of the week.

Martin

[Xynok]

This issue, when applied to the skills Block and Dodge in the context of the results of the block Dice, only comes down to 2 very specific scenarios:

Scenario 1, Frenzy:

Frenzy Attacker Blocks and rolls double Block/Pows (et al). Defender has Block. The Block is now over, regardless of the Attacker's skills, because no Pushback occurred. Not an issue.

Frenzy Attacker Blocks and rolls double Dodge/Pows (et al). Defender has Dodge. The Defender is pushed, and Frenzy Attacker rolls double Dodge/Pows (et al) again. Does Dodge save the defender again?

I would rule Yes.


Scenario 2, Multiple Attacks:

Attacker Blocks and rolls Block/Pow. Defender and Attacker have Block. The Block is now over. Another Attacker Blocks the same Defender and rolls Block/Pow. Does Block save the Defender again?

The exact same question applies to Dodge.

I would rule Yes for both.

Therefore, in the context of the results of the Block Dice, I would rule Dodge and Block work as many times as the Defender is hit. The Defender may also choose NOT to use these skills for any given Block. The reasoning behind this ruling is that getting hit is NOT an action, and a Player may decide NOT to use ANY skill they have.[/b]