AG 6 passes

[Topper]

Hi there
I have some trouble figuring out exactly how this works.
I am aware that any roll before or after modification that ends up as a 1 is a fumble.
Looking at the agility table p. 12 you can see you need a 1+ to pass the ball.
If you go for a long bomb however you get -2 on the roll.
Does this mean you succeed on a 3 or 4?

More specifically I am thinking do you look at the basic agility and then adds or subtracts to find the needed roll (which in this case means you need a 3+).

Or do you look at the dice roll and then adds or subtracts the modifiers (which in this case means you need a 4+).

I doubt it has any importance except on agility 6 - where it does make some difference.

[stashman]

AG6 throws accurate Long Bombs on 3+ and 1-2 is a fumble.

Well I think I am right on the fumble roll but let us get some more inputs.

[Xeterog]

You roll the dice and apply the modifiers, then compare the result to the agility table.

but because of the fumble rule, a modified 1 is a fumble and over-rides the agility table in this case.

3-2 = 1, so agility 6 player throwing a long bomb fumbles on a 1, 2 or a 3, and is accurate on a 4, 5 or 6.

(note, this does not happen with other things, like an agility 6 player dodging away from a diving tackle player...3-2 = 1, compared to the agility chart a 1+ is a success!...)

[stashman]

Hmmm....

Throwing Accurate Longbomb:
AG3 6+
AG4 5+
AG5 4+
AG6 3+ (why is this only a 4+?)


I may get it wrong but it feels right. What if we add Accurate + Strong Arm, then its +2 so fumble is only on 1.

Help me out!!!

[mattgslater]

A 2 on a Long Pass or a 3 on a Long Bomb without skills is a Fumble even though the roll is successful, because a 1 after modifiers is a fumble. With Accurate, a 2 on a Long Pass is a modified 2.

Man, the fumble rules are broken so bad. That's something that needs to be fixed. An extra roll is not nearly as bad as the nightmare that is passing as-is.

How about: on a failed pass check (or on a 1), make an AG roll at +1 with -1 for each enemy TZ. If you make the roll, it's incomplete and scatters once for each range increment (1 for QP, 2 for SP, 3 for LP, 4 for LB). If you fail, you fumble.

Frankly anything that takes the 1/6 out of fumbles sounds great to me.

[bouncergriim]

I like the fumble rule, I think it brings more chaos and that is what is fun in BB. Secondly, it makes sense to me at least that an ag6 player might be a better dodger than thrower (think catcher.). Whereas an ag 5 player with Accurate, strong arm, and pass is the better thrower.

This is one of the few cases in BB where it separates AG for passing from AG for dodging. I like that.

[Xeterog]

Hmmm....

Throwing Accurate Longbomb:
AG3 6+
AG4 5+
AG5 4+
AG6 3+ (why is this only a 4+?)

Code: Select all

Agility     QP            SP            LP               LB
              (Fumble/Inaccurate/Accurate)
   1        1/2-4/5+   1/2-5/6+   1-2/3-5/6+   1-3/4-5/6+
   2        1/2-3/4+   1/2-4/5+   1-2/3-5/6+   1-3/4-5/6+
   3        1/2/3+      1/2-3/4+   1-2/3-4/5+   1-3/4-5/6+
   4        1/-/2+       1/2/3+      1-2/3/4+      1-3/4/5+
   5        1/-/2+       1/-/2+         1-2/3+         1-3/4+
   6+      1/-/2+       1/-/2+         1-2/3+         1-3/4+

having agility 6 does not help you at all over agility 5 in the passing game.  Heck, even with skills, you still fumble on a 1 no matter what.

[Rustycan]

So even with a AG6 and you roll a 1-2-3, you fumble. So if you ever get a chance to take a second AG upgrade, maybe say nay, and choose a skill instead.

[Xeterog]

So even with a AG6 and you roll a 1-2-3, you fumble. So if you ever get a chance to take a second AG upgrade, maybe say nay, and choose a skill instead.

if he's your thrower, definitely.

AG 6 helps with dodging, but doesn't do much at all for passing.

[DoubleSkulls]

A 1 before or after modification is a fumble - so AG6 doesn't help at all with passing (over AG5) - you still fumble a long bomb on a 1,2 or 3.

[stashman]

Okey now I get it.

But if I have accurate and strong arm then the fumble is only on a 1.

Is this correct?

[TuernRedvenom]

Okey now I get it.

But if I have accurate and strong arm then the fumble is only on a 1.

Is this correct?

yes

Imo, this makes sense, developed and skilled throwers are better then plain high AG players at throwing the ball for long passes.

[Pil]

Man, the fumble rules are broken so bad. That's something that needs to be fixed. An extra roll is not nearly as bad as the nightmare that is passing as-is.

I think it's noit just the fumble rules, any game that uses a "x is always a failure" and "y is always a success" system will be flawed near the extremes. When it's a D6 based system the extremes occur rather quickly. I guess it's best not to think too much of it and enjoy the game as it is. Though I must admit that a fumble in cases like these just doesn't feel right (it would far more likely be an inaccurate pass instead). When the negative modifiers come from opposing tackle zones though, the fumble is a more likely scenario (maybe fumble should only be modified by TZ's rather than any negative modifiers).

[DoubleSkulls]

I did have some ideas about how fumbles could roll on an additional table to work out where the ball went - so it could end up flying completely the wrong direction or something similar instead. Roughly speaking something like

* Scatter the ball D6 squares from the throwers square
* Scatter the ball D6 squares from the catchers square
* Drop the ball in throwers square
* Drop in in the middle of the throwing template between thrower & catcher.
etc

That would be more fun IMO.

[Bucket-Head]

(maybe fumble should only be modified by TZ's rather than any negative modifiers).

I think so. We used it in a league and worked very well.