AG 6 passes

[stashman]

In our league we are starting to discuss - what about DIVING TACKLE?

If you leave a Diving Tackler and it's -2 to the AG roll, is this always a failure on 1-3? I think not.

Thanks for any help.

Me again.

AG5 dodges out from a diving tackle player. Will he succed on a 2+?

[Jural]

The AG 5 player is always at 3+, never 2+ or 4+! No confusion there. But AG 6 could get dicey if you had a real rules lawyer going nuts... I'll explain:

AG 4 player normally needs a 3+ to perform an agility action. Dodge gives a +1, meaning the target is 2+. Diving Tackle reduces it by -2, making the target a 4+.

AG 5 player normally needs a 2+ to perform an agility action. Dodge gives a +1, meaning the target is 1+ (but 1's always fail). Diving Tackle reduces it by -2, making the target a 3+.

AG 6 player normally needs a 1+ to perform an agility action. Applying the Dodge modifier (+1) and the Diving Tackle modifier (-2) simultaneously would yield a total modifier of -1, meaning the target is 2+.

One could argue, hypothetically, that Dodge modifier is applied first (so the 1+ remains a 1+) and the Diving Tackle modifier is applied second, turning the 1+ into a 3+, but I can't really see the justification for this approach.

[stashman]

Thanks

[mattgslater]

Waitaminnit. "A roll of 1 before modification always fails." Ain't no "before or after" bit unless you're passing. So there's no reason a roll can't be "0+" so long as you understand that a roll of 1 fails anyway.

AG6: 1+. +1 for dodging: 0+. -2 for Diving Tackle: 2+.

[mattgslater]

I'd like a roll after failing the pass roll to avoid a fumble. I don't think it should be a gimme to Agility teams: how about an AG roll at -1 per enemy TZ, with SH allowing a re-roll if not already used that turn? That way, if you're mobbed up and are NoS'ing your way out, you're all good but a miss is a fumble, while if you're in the clear, it's 3 incompletes to every fumble for SH AG3, or 2-1 for AG4 with no SH. For an AG3 player without SH, the odds don't change on a QP, pretty much the only kind that guy would throw.

You also could have more scatter for longer passes if you were worried about balance. Say 4 scatters for long passes and 5 for long bombs (3 for HMP, of course). That would tone down the long pass a bit. But frankly, passing isn't good enough as-is, so if this makes it a little better that can't be all bad.

[Jural]

Who are you arguing with?

Anyway, no matter how you arrive at it, I think AG 6 dodging away from a DT player works on a 2+, just like everything else he does. But rules lawyers... well, they can argue just about anything, right?

Waitaminnit. "A roll of 1 before modification always fails." Ain't no "before or after" bit unless you're passing. So there's no reason a roll can't be "0+" so long as you understand that a roll of 1 fails anyway.

AG6: 1+. +1 for dodging: 0+. -2 for Diving Tackle: 2+.

[Darkson]

Check the AG table, there's no 0+, the best roll is a 1+, so a AG6 (basic 1+), plus the +1 for dodging is still a 1+.
But the modifiers get added together (+1 for dodging, -2 for DT) to arrive at the 2+.

[Snew]

Yep. Even if your modifiers make it look like anything better than a -2 on the dice it equates to a 1+

Matt- why didn't you take the -2 first and make it a 3+ then take the +1 for Dodge to get the 2+? There's no order to apply modifiers so you have to add them together before you apply them to the AG table.

[grampyseer]

I concur with Snew. You should add/ subtract TOTAL modifiers, then put your number into the AG table to determine the dice roll needed. (The exception being passing.

[Leilond]

The fumble rule do not have anything to do with the AG
If you throw a long bomb, you have a fumble on 1-2-3, regardless of you AG, because the rule say that a result of 1 before or after the modification is a fumble... it doesn't refer to anything else

We're not playing whfb... the difficulty do not change. A pass from a AG 3 is a 4+ roll. You add and subtract modificators to the result of the dices, not to the difficulty

[Mad Jackal]

We're not playing whfb... the difficulty do not change. A pass from a AG 3 is a 4+ roll.

You add and subtract modificators to the result of the dices, not to the difficulty

emphasis mine. But the correct answer is there. From jervis himself, and the rule book.

[Leilond]

We're not playing whfb... the difficulty do not change. A pass from a AG 3 is a 4+ roll.

You add and subtract modificators to the result of the dices, not to the difficulty

emphasis mine. But the correct answer is there. From jervis himself, and the rule book.

The answer is in the rule book, page 12 and page 22

"Roll a D6, and add or subtract any of the modifiers that apply to the D6 roll." (pass rules)

"if the D6 roll for a pass is 1 or less before or after modification, then the thrower has fumbled and dropped the ball. The ball will bounce once from the thrower’s square, and the moving team will suffer a turnover and their turn ends immediately" (fumble rules)

That's enought. If you pass a long bomb, you have a -2 modification, that apply to the d6 roll. If you rolla a 3, you apply the -2 and obtain a 1, that's a fumble, regardless of your AG

[Mad Jackal]

Aye Leilond. I was agreeing with you.

Thanks for getting the page numbers for me though. That should sum it up very clear for any-one wishing to throw with an agility 6 player.



if you take accurate instead of the +1 agility then the 5 agility thrower throws the same pass without fumbling on the 3.

Because he's skilled himself in passing. Not general agility. [jervis's reasoning] . The mechanical bit is the 3 rolled only suffers a -1 penalty as the +1 for accurate counters one of the -2 for long bomb... Thus a roll of 3 is modified to 2 which is accurate and not a one so not fumbled.

[Leilond]

Aye Leilond. I was agreeing with you.

Thanks for getting the page numbers for me though. That should sum it up very clear for any-one wishing to throw with an agility 6 player.



if you take accurate instead of the +1 agility then the 5 agility thrower throws the same pass without fumbling on the 3.

Because he's skilled himself in passing. Not general agility. [jervis's reasoning] . The mechanical bit is the 3 rolled only suffers a -1 penalty as the +1 for accurate counters one of the -2 for long bomb... Thus a roll of 3 is modified to 2 which is accurate and not a one so not fumbled.

Correct. And and if you roll a double and give to the player the strong arm ability, you'll have a fumble only with a result of 1, because accurate + strong arm totally negate the -2 penalty for the long bomb

AG 6 is better than AG 5 for Catch/Intercept/Pickup/Dodge pourpose, but not for Passing pourpose

You'll find another confirmation to the fact that the rules are surely like this at page 60, the last Q&A of the page