Turn-Over + Reroll

[stashman]

Hi

A question.

Player A passes the ball to player B. The pass is accurate but player B fumbles the ball. Turn-Over! The ball bounces to player C and he also fumbles the ball, BUT can the player still use a reroll?

[mattgslater]

I think you misunderstand "fumble." A fumble is what happens when the passer rolls a 1; the receiver can fail a catch roll, but that does not end the turn until the ball stops bouncing.

If the passer had a friendly player in his TZ and fumbled a pass, could the friendly player use a TRR to re-roll the catch attempt? Matt the BB commish would probably rule "yes" on the field, but I don't actually have any basis in that thinking.

[Snew]

WAIT!

It's not a fumble it's a failed catch. That's NOT a turnover. THat turn is still going till the ball comes to rest a) on the pitch which would be a turnover, b) in the hands of an opposing player which would also be a turnover, or c) in the hands of one of your players with not only wouldn't be a turnover but would also award SPPs to the Thrower for the completion. Cute huh?

Of course you can use a TRR. Its still your turn.

[landrover]

Snew has it right. If the ball is still in your possession after throwing and catching is sorted out, it's still your turn so you can use a reroll.

[tenwit]

@Snew: Is your answer pre-LRB5 or somethng? The thrower only gets SPPs if the intended target catches the ball. I presume that the intention of the rules is that the intended target catches the ball without dropping it.. it is possible that the ball bounces around a few times, eventually back to the intended recipient who then catches it. A literal interpretation of the rules on page 26 say that the thrower would get SPPs for this, but that is (I presume) against the intention of the rules.

[skritter]

Quote page 26 of LRB5
Completions (COMP) A player who makes an accurate pass that is caught by the intended receiver from his own team when the ball comes to rest earns 1 Star Player point. This is called a completion.

Important points...
a) accurate pass

b) caught by the intended receiver from his own team when the ball comes to rest

So if the pass is accurate and the intended receiver is the one who ends up with the ball. Then you are awarded SPP's

.

[plasmoid]

Hi guys,
Stashman used a bad example, but I think you all missed his question:
Is it possible to use a team reroll after a turnover.
I.e.: Thrower fouls a pick-up (turnover), the ball bounces to a team mate who fails to catch it.... can he use a team reroll.

Short answer:
Yes.
And it's still a turnover, even if he catches the ball.

Cheers
Martin

[stashman]

Hi guys,
Stashman used a bad example, but I think you all missed his question:
Is it possible to use a team reroll after a turnover.
I.e.: Thrower fouls a pick-up (turnover), the ball bounces to a team mate who fails to catch it.... can he use a team reroll.

Short answer:
Yes.
And it's still a turnover, even if he catches the ball.

Cheers
Martin

Thanks Martin. You got it right for me. Thanks everybody else for helping me out.

[TuernRedvenom]

Hi guys,
Stashman used a bad example, but I think you all missed his question:
Is it possible to use a team reroll after a turnover.
I.e.: Thrower fouls a pick-up (turnover), the ball bounces to a team mate who fails to catch it.... can he use a team reroll.

Short answer:
Yes.
And it's still a turnover, even if he catches the ball.

Cheers
Martin

I'm not sure this is correct: turnover -> your turn ends immediately -> you can't use a team reroll.

edit after reading the rulebook:
The rulebook does seem rather ambiguous about this though, it states nowhere when your turn exactly ends, I think you can interpret the words on page 9 in 2 ways:
1) turnover occurs, players turn ends, "in between turns" ball is scattered, stunned players placed prone, opponent starts his turn -> hence no rerolls allowed for catching the bouncing ball
2) turnover occurs, ball is scattered, stunned players placed prone, your turn ends, opponent starts his turn -> rerolls are allowed for catching the bouncing ball.

Although option 2 seems the most plausible since it's "cleaner" (no time between turns).

[Darkson]

The intention has always been that the trnover only "happens" once the ball has come to rest, even if the event that caused the ball to scatter is an auto-turnover.

[Snew]

@Snew: Is your answer pre-LRB5 or somethng? The thrower only gets SPPs if the intended target catches the ball. I presume that the intention of the rules is that the intended target catches the ball without dropping it.. it is possible that the ball bounces around a few times, eventually back to the intended recipient who then catches it. A literal interpretation of the rules on page 26 say that the thrower would get SPPs for this, but that is (I presume) against the intention of the rules.

Yes. LRB5 sucks and I forgot about this part of its suckiness. All who pointed out my error are correct. It's doesn't change the rest of what I said though.

and Stashman/Martin- that wasn't what was said- it was stated that the pass was accurate. That's what was answered.

[Darkson]

Let's be perfectly clear on this, as I think the answer is getting muddied by people interpreting the question differently, which gives different, but correct, answers.

Player A passes the ball to player B. The pass is accurate but player B fumbles the ball. Turn-Over! The ball bounces to player C and he also fumbles the ball, BUT can the player still use a reroll?

In the original question that stashman asked above, there is NO FUMBLE, as the pass is accurate. There is a failed catch, which will result in a turnover if the ball comes to rest not in the hands of a player from the passing team.
In the exact case stashman asked, player C can use a team reroll (assuming he's on the passing side) or a skill reroll (catch/pro), and if the catch is then made, no turnover occurs.


If the pass is fumbled by the thrower, as stashman seems to make out in a later post, it is automatically a turnover, regardless of wheter the ball ends up in the hands of one of the passing team or not*. However, the turnover does not take effect until the ball has come to rest, so team/skill rerolls can still be used.


* - Note - if the pick up is failed/pass is fumbled, but the ball finally comes to rest in the hands of a player from the passing team in the endzone, a Touchdown is scored before the turnover happens.

[plasmoid]

Hi Tenwit,
if there is one thing I agree with Snew on it's that trying to conjure up "the intention of a rule" often gets messy.
I'll stick with reading what it says.

So, yes, if the intended reciever botches the catch, but mangages to catch it in the end, then it's SPPs for the thrower.

Cheers
Martin

[tenwit]

I agree too, at least with the analysis. But this is one of the cases where my league house-rules to the intention. There's already enough SPP farming with quick and short passes going on, anything that makes it harder for those fnarking elves to gain block is good in my book

[fen]

I found the best solution to an Elf with Block is a Blitzer with mighty blow. Block doesn't work in the Dead & Injured box you know.