Make the humans a good Team. Change the Catcher.

[Glorian Underhill]

I have played around 50 matches with the Humans on fumbbl, and I doesn't consider myself a good human coach.

But my impressions so far:

-Humans are considered the allround team. Well that is true. But the thing that bothers me at all is the the Position of the Catcher. If I have to play the Ball when facing a bashy team just to save your players from dying.

So I don't want any advice like: "... no just change your play style ...."
I want input on he Catcher.

First Compare them with the other Catchers or Catchertypes out there.

Human:
8 2 3 7 Catch, Dodge 70.000 gcs

Amazon Catcher
6 3 3 7 Catch, Dodge 70.000 gcs , as she has the same costs she trades -2 MV versus +1 ST. Most succesfull Amazon coaches like leave them completely and just take more Throwers or more linewoman. MV 6 is just not the speed a Catcher should have.

High Elf
8 3 4 7 Catch 90.000 gcs , for 20k you get plus 1ST, 1AG and loss of Dodge.

Wood Elf Catcher
9 2 4 7 Catch, Dodge , 90.000 gcs, the Queen of Catchers. Turbo fast, good agility, all skills he need to reroll the 1s.

Gutter Runner
9 2 4 7 Dodge 80.000 gcs , Fast and AG 4. 4 of them could easily make the game without passing.

Pro Elf Catcher
8 3 4 7 Catch, Nerves of Steel, 100.000 gcs. Upgrade of the High Elf Catcher. Nothing to stop him from getting the ball on 2+ with Re Roll. Very pricy though.

Catcher Types:

Skink
8 2 3 7 Dodge, Stunty 60.000 gcs, In the Lizzardman team the Skink is ball handler and catcher, usually only for hand offs, in one. Cheaper than the human catcher but doesn't bother with tackle zones.

Undead, Necro Ghoul
7 3 3 7 Dodge 70.000 , a slower Human Catcher. for the loss of -1 MV and Catch he gets +1ST. But he is also capable of Blitzing the Opponent.

Dark Elf Runner, With Elf, Blitzer.
7 3 4 7 , various stuff, 80.000 - 110.000 As the Dark Elfes have none Catcher per se they have up to 8 players with movement 7 and AG 4. No Catch as a skill but some have Dodge and some have Block.
Not really usefull for compare reasons.


So my conclusion is that either you have ST2 and some bonus like stunty, or AG4. Or you have ST3 and some skills less in the area of 90.000 or Move 6 or 7 and cost around 70.000.

So I have 3 suggestions how the Catcher can been changed.

Option 1: Higle elfy human. Strong as the High Elf Catcher but not as skillfull.

Option 2: Gutter Catcher. Agility like the Gutter runner but with build in Catch. With this a human team can catapult itself into the highest rankings an most TDs.

Option 3. Ghouly Catcher. The Catcher gets slower but gain some punch Elements to it and doesnt get to pricy.

[stormmaster1]

Pretty sure this will have been discussed endlessly somewhere. Humans work well. thye can win well if coached well, but are difficult to coach. The team is balanced and fair. No need for change.

the catcher itself i think is the basis for most catcher types. the 70k price mark and MA8+dodge is their main strength. They can do the job well for human sides, but not as deadly as elves.

[rodders]

leave him alone hes an average player in an average team like he should be

[Joemanji]

Humans are a great team, perfectly balanced IMO. In addition to this the Catcher is one of their greatest assets. It is a constant source of bafflement to me that coaches don't get the best out of these players. I've coached a Human team to 21 straight wins in the MBBL2, and was beaten only twice in 20 games in the MBBL. Both of these teams were built around the Catchers (and Blitzers).

They have got even better in LRB 5.0, with Dauntless being an obvious second skill pick after Block (or Wrestle).

Using them is simple. On offense either
i) keep them at the back of the cage, ready to use their speed and mobility to run through a gap and form a cage behind enemy lines. Or
ii) use them as receivers, but make sure you support them with a Blitzer or Linemen.

On defence they are even more valuable. Their mobility allows them to plug gaps and be where you need them to be. Play the two step defence as shown below:

Code: Select all

......|
...CL.|
......|
......|
...CL.|
......|

If your opponent blitzes the lineman, you can dodge away the catch and reform the line one square back. Rinse and repeat.

[Glorian Underhill]

Well I know I have read it sometimes before, and I used the search funktion for half an hour but couldnt find anything usefull, apart from nicely painted teams.

And yes, in a league enviroment they do pretty well. Ressurection Tournaments not IMO. I know there are 5 or 6 won by them but there are rather few of them you met at an Tournament.

[Bucket-Head]

I will make human cathcer cost 60k...

They are over priced.

[Rituro]

I haven't had any serious enough problems with my Catchers to warrant a change. I compensate for the ST2 by keeping them out of TZs and abuse the MA8+Dodge like it's going out of style.

Oh, and the fact one of my catchers picked up +ST in both of his first two skill-ups makes me just giddy. MA8, ST4? Time to go ball hunting!

[datalorex]

Option 1: Higle elfy human. Strong as the High Elf Catcher but not as skillfull.

Not as skillful? You want to give him Catch and Dodge with elf numbers. That is MORE skillful than an elf catcher. Instead of copying some other archetype, make an new one: A tough catcher

8238 Catch Dodge. 80 thou. Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.

[Joemanji]

That essentially already exists with players such as the WE and Amazon catcher, who have the same AV as the rest of their team.

Besides, the m238 statline is already set aside in my head for Ungors on the fabled Beastman team. 6238 Dodge. Do you give them Horns too, or Stunty? So exciting.

*sigh* Chaos Humans, if only.

[Jural]

I think the shoddy catchers actually go well with a team who fields an ogre and 4 top notch blitzers. In addition, it's the fact that they are cheap and 100% complete out of the box that makes them useful. Sure, they fail everything one out of 9 times... but they are still pretty darn reliable.

Better at Dodging than elves... if you don't have the TRR available.

And if one of them ever rolls a +1 STR, +1 AG, or +1 MA, they are truly a feared piece. One of the best pieces in the game for stat increases (which is more important in long leagues than many realize.)

[Snew]

So I don't want any advice like: "... no just change your play style ...."
I want input on he Catcher.

The problem is that those Catchers are just fine if not very good. If you have problems with them it's likely you really do need to do something differently.

I'd love to have a Stronger Catcher like the HEs but then playing Humans would feel like cheating.

I'd love to have a more Agile Catcher like the rats but then playing Humans would feel like cheating.

I'd love to have a tougher Catcher but then...

You can't do anything to the Catcher and not screw up this team. Love them or hate them that piece is written in stone.

[Jamie Fameflame]

I like the catcher as he is now, can't really fault him.

They are always the SPP hogs on my Human teams

[Old Man Draco]

So I don't want any advice like: "... no just change your play style ...."
I want input on he Catcher.

The problem is that those Catchers are just fine if not very good. If you have problems with them it's likely you really do need to do something differently.

I'd love to have a Stronger Catcher like the HEs but then playing Humans would feel like cheating.

I'd love to have a more Agile Catcher like the rats but then playing Humans would feel like cheating.

I'd love to have a tougher Catcher but then...

You can't do anything to the Catcher and not screw up this team. Love them or hate them that piece is written in stone.

Exactly my thoughts. The catcher is part of a very well balanced team. change the statts or anything else and you'll have tweaked (improved) the entire team, not just the individual player. And the human team does not need that.

[PubBowler]

So I don't want any advice like: "... no just change your play style ...."
I want input on he Catcher.

The problem is that those Catchers are just fine if not very good. If you have problems with them it's likely you really do need to do something differently.

I'd love to have a Stronger Catcher like the HEs but then playing Humans would feel like cheating.

I'd love to have a more Agile Catcher like the rats but then playing Humans would feel like cheating.

I'd love to have a tougher Catcher but then...

You can't do anything to the Catcher and not screw up this team. Love them or hate them that piece is written in stone.

Wow, I've never agreed with Snew more.

I feel dirty...

[Ziggi Abschuss]

IMHO the human catcher is well balanced for that team. ST2 does not really make sense fluffwise, but still, its balanced.

The root of this whole problem rose when 3rd ed parted ways with the earlier rules sets and added all agility type rolls under AG. Throwing Skill TS and Catching Skill - Cool - Cl were dropped. This brought about a lot of other issues in game balance that were worked out in other ways.

But TS and CL would be something I would like to see back in the game - well, at least I would like to test that some day. This would enable teams to be designed with more dimensions that just bashy vs agile.

Ziggi