Make the humans a good Team. Change the Catcher.

[Patchwork]

when you play with this team, you should do things SO MUCH better than your oponent.

Why? Humans are the baseline in nearly every fantasy setting (for pretty mush the reasons Snew gave where we think of another race and make them more agile or stronger), the average that other races are changed from to be definined and made. In blood bowl that is the human teams strength. If they can't out bash a team then they can out maneveur and out pass them. If they can't out maneveur and out pass them they can out bash them. Is it harder to play well then a specialist team bash or pass team? Yes. Does it make them a weak or bad team? No, it actualy gives them a flexibility and strength and that is what makes them a good team and a balanced team.

[Snew]

So, what about skaven coaches?

I have a fondness for cheese.

I play humans both tourneys and leagues, I win with humans. I play so much other races for nine years and, for example, Necros or Dark Elves can do the same as humans, but better. I lose with humans, and when you play with this team, you should do things SO MUCH better than your oponent.

OK I see the problem. You play Dark Elves and Necros for 9 years and they're easy. No one can beat you but you loose games when you play Humans so the Human roster must be the problem? You like the way the Blitzers and the Thrower look so it can't be them. The linemen look like Linemen so it can't be them. It must be the Catchers. Your Achilles heel. They get squished. They're only ST2 so everyone gets a 2d Block. They only have AV7 so they get hurt. I think the problem is this. YOU don't play them well. YOU loose a lot with them. They may not be the team for YOU. That doesn't mean they need to be changed. You sound like you're a good coach. You'll get the hang of them. Try something different. Mix some skills up. Take Fend. Get Dauntless and Strip Ball. Everyone will HATE your Catchers.

[Darkson]

You're talking about changing a race based on tourney feedback, which is not the correct way of looking at it. Based on the MBBL results, the humans are fine (55.53% w/l).

Maybe they're not a great tourney team, but tourneys are not what the rules are there for.

AND in leagues. How many guys in your league have been played humans last 5 years? And someone else race?

Well, given that the MBBL is a league, there's an answer right there.


I won one of our leagues (approx. 12 games) with humans, we had a human team finish in the top half of our last league, and we have 2 human teams in our current league (which is only one game in, s two early to say where they'll come).
Because I personally hate league LRB5, I choose Goblins, but if we'd stuck with LRB4 or LRB ARBBL (a LRB 4/5/houseruled hybrid) I had intended to take humans (and got my mate to paint my valks so I could use them as humans, norse and 'zons at tounreys).

[Pakulkan]

So, what about skaven coaches?

I have a fondness for cheese.

I play humans both tourneys and leagues, I win with humans. I play so much other races for nine years and, for example, Necros or Dark Elves can do the same as humans, but better. I lose with humans, and when you play with this team, you should do things SO MUCH better than your oponent.

OK I see the problem. You play Dark Elves and Necros for 9 years and they're easy. No one can beat you but you loose games when you play Humans so the Human roster must be the problem? You like the way the Blitzers and the Thrower look so it can't be them. The linemen look like Linemen so it can't be them. It must be the Catchers. Your Achilles heel. They get squished. They're only ST2 so everyone gets a 2d Block. They only have AV7 so they get hurt. I think the problem is this. YOU don't play them well. YOU loose a lot with them. They may not be the team for YOU. That doesn't mean they need to be changed. You sound like you're a good coach. You'll get the hang of them. Try something different. Mix some skills up. Take Fend. Get Dauntless and Strip Ball. Everyone will HATE your Catchers.

Misunderstood Snew. I play humans so much as Necros or Dark Elves. Humans is one of my favourite teams, I'm 10th and 13th in the Barnabowl and Valencia Masterbowl (more than 60 coaches each). I play two leagues of more than 18 matches whith that. This is not the problem. The problem is that when I have in front of me an Orc team, this team has already winned the match IF I DON'T DO anything to change this. Is like amazons playing agaist Dwarves, but in human's case it happens with lots of teams. You should work harder with humans than other teams.

At the league beginning, set up your humans against necros or dark elves, they can do the same as you, but better. They have block, high movement, ONE player less than you...ok, you have this good Ogre, but they have frenzy, AG4 or ST4 and regeneration...so, what's up? because in addition, they DO NOT have any player with ST2

I said: I've been played with this three teams, and I'm sure that the place of the human team as the "well-ballanced", the "team that can do anithing" is taken by this other two teams as well (better).

[Snew]

I've played Dark Elves in a league too and find them too easy. Maybe they need to be nerfed.

[Pipey]

Maybe 8247 Catch 80k and 0-2 limit???

Just speaking my brains...

[PubBowler]

Just speaking my brains...

As in, you're opening your mouth & they happen to fall out?

Weird...

As for the idea, less weird but I don't think it's required or desirable (unless you're a human coach).

[Rituro]

Maybe 8247 Catch 80k and 0-2 limit???

Dodge is vital to the suvival of an AV7 catcher.

[Pakulkan]

I've played Dark Elves in a league too and find them too easy. Maybe they need to be nerfed.

So, I think that humans shouldn't have any player with ST or AG over 3. For the same reason no one human player should have ST or AG less than 3

[Snew]

I've played Dark Elves in a league too and find them too easy. Maybe they need to be nerfed.

So, I think that humans shouldn't have any player with ST or AG over 3. For the same reason no one human player should have ST or AG less than 3

I see what you're saying. I'd like to have it. I think it's too much for Humans though. These guys are the yardstick and I've seen them used to extremely good effect. To the same effect that you would look at them and think that mayvbe they're TOO good.

I can relate. I know where you're coming from. I really like Orcs. I like the thought of Orcs. I just think of myself as an Orcy player. I'm not very good with Orcs. I want to be good with Orcs but it doesn't happen. I keep practicing and I'm still not good at them. I win games but it really feels like work. Does it mean the Orc roster needs to be changed? No. I don't think it does but if you looked at tourney performance you might say it does. Would I like to see Orcs get something else that would make them easier to play. I think I would but if I made them easier for me maybe it'd ruin them for someone else. I don't want that to happen.

I think that maybe you and I should just stick to something else.

[Jural]

I can relate. I know where you're coming from. I really like Orcs. I like the thought of Orcs. I just think of myself as an Orcy player. I'm not very good with Orcs. I want to be good with Orcs but it doesn't happen. I keep practicing and I'm still not good at them.

I felt that way with Chaos Dwarves. Every game was close, every game I should have won, but I ended up .500. Why?

It comes down to stalling, I tried to stall at the goal line against elves, lizardmen, and skaven. In every case, it just didn't work out very well. I'm not sure why, I ended up with a Strength 4, Block, Sure Hands Hobgoblin... but at the end of the day, he was very vulnerable to the half die block!

[Snew]

1/2 die Blocks always seem to give my opponent the result he needs too.

[Pakulkan]

In the NAF WC I received 6 elf blocks after leaping or dodging 5+ with one dice with 6 Pow results. But my Necros finally resist!!

I don't know what's the reason, but humans don't have the role that they suppose to have in bloodbowl: mainstream team, well ballanced and difficult to beat. That's my opinion, in fact, and my game with other "human-like" teams is so much succesfully, so, when I want to play human, I play Necros

[Joemanji]

1/2 die Blocks always seem to give my opponent the result he needs too.

Same. I've even had them take me down on 1/3 die blocks. And it was a Killdozer in the MBBL2 too, so any knockdown = BH.

Again, Humans are fine. For all the reasons I previous posted. Just because they aren't that easy to coach, or don't fit every coach's style, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them.

Btw, ST3 Catchers would be far too good IMO. I had one who got it from an advance, and he was amazing (roster). Four of them would really tip the Human team over the edge IMO.

[Pakulkan]

Btw, ST3 Catchers would be far too good IMO. I had one who got it from an advance, and he was amazing (roster). Four of them would really tip the Human team over the edge IMO.

The number of catchers in human team with ST3 catchers will be 0-2.