Developing Dwarves

[Flyin' Fling]

Right, I'd better get started and ask the questions I've been meaning to ask for a while.

First, some general background.
Our local league has lain dormant for a while due to several reasons, one of which was a general discontent with the 3rd ed. rules-mess thing.

Next week, however, we are going to kick of again usin the LRB. Personally, I decided to play a team that doesn't break as easily as the one I used last times, namely Flings. This time around, I dedided to lay the boot down myself with Dwarves.

And here is where I run into problems. I can't quite decide how to start or how to develop my team/players, even after reading all the good advice strewn about here and ond other sites.

League composition, afaict: chaos *2, Undead, Chaos Dwarves, Skaven, Orks, Humans, Woodies, High elves, Lizards and Me. So rather bash orientated.

I got 3 starting options I'm considering... any help you can give in picking one would be appreciated:

a) 2 Runners, 9 LB, 3 RR, 9FF
b) 1 Runner, 1 Slayer, 9 LB, 3 RR, 8 FF
c) 2 Runners, 2 Slayers, 7 LB, 2 RR, 9 FF

Does it show that I don't like blitzers?

a) gives me ball handling, enough RR to be comfortable and lots of LB, so it'll be easier to get the guarding thing going. But with all the Str Teams around, not much push against those....

b) gives me a slayer to deal with the Str, but only one... and it cuts my Ball handling down to a single player... which I'm not really comfortable with. Still, it's an option.

c) covers the position players, and a lack of RR for the few first games... which aren't any more expensive to buy later on than a position player or LB, almost. Main problem I have with it is that it will slow my gain of guarders, at least so I believe.
As for acquisitions after the first games, Apoth first, then, depending on starting roster, position players/reserves/RR, in a switching pattern thing.
Player advancement. could use some advice here too.
LB: guard/MB, stand firm on doubles. Standard, iow. no problem here.
Runners: Block, Dump-off, pass, NoS on doubles. want to try the game with two of these. good idea or not?Slayers: absolutely no clue... MB, I suppose, Multiple block perhaps, but I'm vague on them...

Think that's everything. My thanks for the advice, especially considering starting roster.
If no strong arguments for any, or a general preference for one show up, I guess I'll have to roll a die to see what I go with...

Did I forget something?

[DoubleSkulls]

At the mo you only have 2 AG3 players - neither of whom has Block and both are Av8. This means when they are targetted (and they will be) you are going to find it really hard to move the ball.

Take the blitzers.

I'd be tempted by
2x Runner
2x Blitzer
2x Troll Slayer
5x Longbeard
2x TRR
7x FF

[harley_topper]

Ian is right you should take blitzers to your team.
They have block and AG3, MA 5
They are good players. They can pick up the ball and are not really stupid when passing the ball.

[martynq]

I agree with Ian about the blitzers.

An alternative is the following lineup:

2 runners
2 blitzers
7 longbeards
3 re-rolls
7 FF

This gives you a further re-roll, which is always a nice thing. OK, you'll not have access to Dauntless, but your next purchases should be an apothecary and the 2 troll slayers.

Cheers,
Martyn

[Ancalagon]

I choosed to have all positional players, included ogre, for starters.
At this moment I haven't lost a match, 6 of 6 wins against 2 undead, 2 H.Elf, 1 orc, 1 skaven.
You'll need all ag3 players to carry the ball, and getting the ogre from start will allow him to get block and Pro asap. Troll slayers are useful against strong teams.

[Zy-Nox]

I started dwarves with

2 runner
2 slayer
2 blitzer
5 Longbeards

2 rr
whatever left on FF (6 i think)
It worked very well, and they are still going strong,although they are at 243 now

[Bob-the-Fish]

Having max on positional players for dwarves is almost a given. Without Blitzers, you've got 2 players that can handle the ball meaning any marginally intelligent coach will see your play coming a mile away and smack you down before your even set up. Blitzers have the all important AG 3 and also have the high AV of other dwarfs meaning they can charge down the field and you can try passing it to them in a pinch.
The best starting team I think would be
2 slayers
2 runners
2 blitzers
5 LB
2 RR
and the rest FF

[Colin]

Most people seem to be in agreement here, with dwarves you talke the max. positional players (I always do). It becomes a question of how many RRs compared to FF.

[Korhil]

Starting Dwarfs:

Dont take Troll Slayers... they cost too much and you dont need them early on anyway.

2 Runners
2 Blitzers
7 LongBeards
3 Re-Rolls
7 Fan Factor

Reasons: Troll Slayers cost too much for something with AV8. Without Guards, Frenzy *can* be a liability skill. And, having more LongBeards means more chance of MVP's and Guard.

Skills:
Longbeards
Normal: Guard, Mighty Blow
Dbls: Stand Firm, Diving Tackle

Guard before MightyBlow, you cant wait for an AG2 player to get to 16SPP for Guard, you need it now, a team of Guards is insanely Strong. StandFirm is the Best dbl pick for a LongBeard. It allows your FrontLine to hold up, and you Cage to hold shape. It also allow you to attempt dodges to get them into a better place with their Guard skill. On a 2nd Dbl, grab Diving Tackle because it can cause Turn Overs.

Runners
Normal: Block, StripBall, Tackle
Dbls: Dodge, Guard

Dont develop Throwers, if you find a need to throw with Dwarfs, you arent playing them right in the first place and should work on Cage play more. Dodge helps mobility when your on defense and trying to get to the ball. Block, StripBall, Tackle... with Ma 6 these are the best Blitzers you have, they are the stars of the team. On a 2nd Dbl, Guard, because these dudes have the Ma to get where you need a Guard.

Blitzers
Normal: Guard, Mighty Blow, Tackle
Dbls: Dodge, Stand Firm

Guard first, these guys can score a TD or 2 to get their first skill and boost Guard players in the squad. They will get to 2 skills before the Long Beards as well, usually alot longer and MB is along way off for them, having some MB in the squad helps, then Tackle to round them out so they can specially go after your opponents "Catcher/Runner" types. Dodge helps with Survival and Mobility (which Dwarfs are naturally lacking). Stand Firm for reasons to that of a Long Beard.

Troll Slayers
Normal: Mighty Blow, Pro, Tackle
Dbls: Stand Firm, Diving Tackle

Mighty Blow helps these guys get CAS, which is there only purpose in Dwarf teams. Pro helps Dauntless Rolls, and then Tackle so they can go after "Catcher/Runner" types as well. The Dbl skills for the reasons as for a Long Beard and so you can Frenzy people into the crowd without fear it it happening to yourself.

Purchases:
1) Apothecary
2) Troll Slayer
3) Troll Slayer
4) Re-Roll
5) Re-Roll
6) Ogre (if you feel the need, they are almost useless in a Dwarf team, the fact you cant Re-Roll dbl Skulls makes them more of a Liability than an asset)

There ya go

---Korhil

[Thadrin]

I have two options for starting dwarfs:
2 Blitzers, 2 Runners, 1 Slayer, 6 Longbeards, 3 rerolls, 5 Fan Factor
2 Blitzers, 2 Runners, 2 Slayers, 5 Longbeards, 3 rerolls, 3 Fan Factor

As variations you can trade in a reroll and a fan factor point for an apothecary. Its all on wether you want to risk going into a season with only 11 players and very much on what team you have as your first opponent.

Development depends very much on what you want. Dwarfs are far more flexible than they get credit for.
Longbeards are almost universally Guard or Mighty Blow, with Stand Firm on a double. Dauntless is also worth considering on a doubles roll because you can never have too many Big Guy killers, and the extra dauntless can be especially useful against Chaos or Orcs.
Runners I have one QB type and one Ball carrier. My QB gets Pass, Block, HMP on a double probably dodge or possible Nerves of Steel. My Ball Carrier gets Block, and then you have a myriad of choices - Dump off can be fun. Tackle is worth considering so he can play a little safety too. Dodge on a double.
Slayers get Stand Firm automatically on Doubles. This allows you to use them for the "Frenzy off the pitch" tactic without fear of getting nudged off yourself. Mighty Blow is their starting skill, followed by one of several options. Strip Ball combos well with Frenzy, and frenzying a Guard into position can also be useful, especially as they are a little faster than Longbeards. Piling on is also worth considering.
Blitzers are the real flexible guys...you can do ANYTHING with Blitzers. I personally go the Linebacker/Fullback route: Tackle, Guard, Sure Hands, Dodge on a double. Strip Ball and Piling on can again be fun "spoiler" skills.

ALWAYS TAKE STAT INCREASES. You need all the extra Agility and moevement you can get, and extra strength is never to be rejected.

[Flyin' Fling]

First off, thanks all for taking the time to reply.

Everybody's insistence that I take blitzers in my starting roster has accomplished two things:

- I'm feeling very nervous now that I've decided to ignore all the advice and go for roster c)
- and I will bumb up my purchase of blitzers way sooner, right after the apoth and the 3rd reroll, before the reserve LB, probably.

after carefull consideration of my capacities and the way our league will be set up, I believe I can keep my ball handlers safe long enough... we will see.

I will, of course, keep you all posted of any further devellopments, so that you can all point and gloat when I fail miserably

player advancement wise, I've gotten some good ideas from this.

[TiMuN]

I just started a Dwarven team at 1a Liga NetBowl, an online league. I think i messed it right away for not picking up some runners, but the things have turned quite well for as far now.

I took:

2 Trollslayers
2 Blitzers
1 Ogre
6 Longbeards
2 RR
4 FF

(if my mind serves me well)
After three games, all won, I have lost a Trollslayer in game one, bought a Longbeard to replace it, and haven't had money enough as to buy a Runner. Next match, i will hire the Dwarven Alchemist to get some extra bucks and finally have some extra dudes to handle the ball...

You can check the Tarnondak Axeholders Cockerel, and the games played so far. (Spanish!)

[kaboom]

2RUNNER
2SLAYER
2BLITZER
5LB
1FF
2REROLL