Dude, is it me or are Vampires bad?

thecheat231 · Post by **thecheat231** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:30 am

I have a friend who just got into playing blood bowl, and I know that by picking Vampires (one of the more difficult teams to play) he set himself up for some challenging games. But seriously, I gave it a go and I have been playing for years now, I have no idea what their strategy should be, there is never enough (working) vampires to play an effective running game, and they don't pass overly well. Whats the deal?

Craigtw · Post by **Craigtw** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:13 am

The vampirs are a really tough team to play, because the only way that I found that they work, is to leave the best players (the vampires) in positions where they are not seeing the majority of the action.

First off you should try to use them sparingly as to avoid chancing the OFAB rolls.

Secondly, I found it best to leave them in the backfield and be the ones to be the safeties, making the blitzes on catchers and such who squeak through.

Seriously though, the best part of the vampires is their Hypnotic Gaze. You use that to nullify the corner of your opponsnts cages, open paths to the ball carrier and to make spaces for your own ball carriers (usually thralls) to run through.

I played them at a recent tourney and found them incredibly frustrating. In one game I had a great offense going and was pretty sure to score until I failed four OFAB rolls with my three vamps (one used a reroll), and they ended up eating my thrall cage. But then in my last game they behaved themselves pretty well and I was able to tie the #1 coach in Canada.

Certainly not a team for the faint of heart, or for one who takes the game too seriously!

Meradanis · Post by **Meradanis** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:56 am

I've started Vampires in our local league (fixed schedule), so far I've played 2/0/5 after round 7. I want to add that those 5 lost games were close ones (lost with 1 TD difference) in 4 cases, I could have tied some of those games if Nuffle wouldn't hate me.

In my opinion, they've made the Vampires slightly too bad. I've been lobbying for a change of the Blood Lust skill for quite some time (auto-stun instead of injury roll), but I don't think I'm going to see this happen.

The only way to play them is to start with no more than 2 Vampires in your team, buy many Rerolls (I've started with 5) and many Thralls. I believe they might get better after some time, propably if you're up to 4 Vampires with 2 skills (or more) each and some skilled Thralls. In the meantime, Hypnotic Gaze is your best and only chance to win some games. Learn how to use it to break cages, and you'll have some weapon versus caging team. If you're playing against a passing team, you're in serious trouble though.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:47 am

I've seen Vamps be effective, though it takes some developing to get them there. AG or ST ups help no end there.

Meradanis wrote:In my opinion, they've made the Vampires slightly too bad. I've been lobbying for a change of the Blood Lust skill for quite some time (auto-stun instead of injury roll), but I don't think I'm going to see this happen.

That sounds awesome to me, as it would make it an on pitch effect. Maybe refusing to bite a thrall could result in a srunned Vampire instead of running off the pitch too? I agree that they've made them very slightly too bad. I'm all for challenging teams, but not really thrilled about teams that are just plain rubbish!

IIRC they are talking about capping Blood Lust injuries to a maximum of BH, so that is a start at least. Killing your own players isn't something that should be a regular occurence in BB IMO.

Joe

Bucket-Head · Post by **Bucket-Head** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:23 pm

Why not make the armour roll before the injury roll in a vampire bite?

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:02 pm

Bucket-Head wrote:Why not make the armour roll before the injury roll in a vampire bite?

The problem with that is that if you don't break armor, the vampire doesn't get his nourishment. He HAS to get his! I like the auto stun idea or even if the thrall is automatically sent to the bench (reserves).

Craigtw · Post by **Craigtw** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:51 pm

Would probably be better to start a new thread for this, but a friend and I were hashing about some ideas on the subject and came up with the idea that vampires could take a hit on their stats if they chose not to bite a thrall.

In other words, every time they failed their OFAB roll they could take -1 to all their stats until the half ended or they bit a thrall. This would make for interesting strategic choices as oppose to being obligated to do something you don't want to.

'Cuz as it stands, I don't think I would ever want to play them again - too frustrating!

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:58 pm

Yeah, that's something I thought about once, but I think the paperwork required might put people off. It would work great for a PBeM team though.

Mad Jackal is the star coach with Vampires btw. Where is he?

Craigtw · Post by **Craigtw** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:27 pm

Joemanji wrote:Yeah, that's something I thought about once, but I think the paperwork required might put people off. It would work great for a PBeM team though.

I disagree, it would be no more work than bonehead or hypnotic gaze. All someone would have to do is to put a token under the vamp as a reminder, and put multiple tokens under if they suffer more than once. No paperwork involved, really.

sangraal · Post by **sangraal** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:20 pm

I've found taking just 3 Vamps works OK - 5 rerolls minimum. Dont use rerolls for Blust unless its vital (ie your Blitz or your Vamp moving with the ball).

As for a tweak to make them a tad better, I've been saying this for a couple of years now -- just make the Bloodlust roll a D8 instead of a D6.

sangraal

ClayInfinity · Post by **ClayInfinity** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:16 am

I dunno, I kind of like the OFAB rule as it is. Previous posters have hit the nail on the head with the notion of having few Vamps and many rerolls to start with.

I think if you moved to an auto-stun rule, then the Thralls would live too long and gain skills themselves, turning the team into a super team... imagine 4 Vamps and alot of skilled up Thralls with nothing but auto stun slowing them down - they'd be a nightmare team!

I think the point early in this thread - they're a bad team which provide great "fun" but not for the serious competitive win at all costs type player.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:46 am

ClayInfinity wrote:I think if you moved to an auto-stun rule, then the Thralls would live too long and gain skills themselves, turning the team into a super team... imagine 4 Vamps and alot of skilled up Thralls with nothing but auto stun slowing them down - they'd be a nightmare team!

That may be, but you'll be shorthanded a lot which means you won't be winning a lot of matches. And why would Vamps kill there own players anyway. Seems to me they'd want to keep them alive so they could suck more of their blood in the future. But what do I know. I'm certainly not a vampire. lol.

And what's wrong with Thralls getting skills? Isn't that sort of the purpose of BB anyway? No one complains about skilling up other linemen. I mean, they only get general skills.

Another option (if you don't like the auto stun) is to give all Thralls Thick Skull off the bat (for 10k more).

bouf · Post by **bouf** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:40 am

Thick skull eh?

I like that... These guys get beat up on the pitch by two teams. Most players only have to worry about one team trying to bite them!

THEN there is the ride back home! I'd hate to be forced to drive that bus... what happens if you fail a Bloodlust roll while driving!

It makes sence from a Fluff angle that the Vamps would get some toughened dudes for their on pitch Thralls. and sets them apart from Hobgoblins. I wouldn't bother with the 10K increase though... If Vamps are really that bad, maybe thats the boost they need?

(But what do I know about player costs???)

~//~

I think that Auto stun is a little too weak.

It has been suggested that any casualties suffered could be Auto "Badly Hurt" but I feel that ruins some of the fun... Once in a while I'd like to see a Vamp get carried away!

I suggest a re-roll on the injury roll for failed Blood Lust rolls (accepting the 2nd roll even if it's worse)

That way you will see less casualties against your own players but still get a few!

Craigtw · Post by **Craigtw** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:09 am

ClayInfinity wrote:I dunno, I kind of like the OFAB rule as it is. Previous posters have hit the nail on the head with the notion of having few Vamps and many rerolls to start with..

That is what I had when I played them at a tourney - unfortunately, you can only use one reroll per round - and four OFABS were failed by the three vmps in one turn - how unlucky is that!

ClayInfinity wrote:I think if you moved to an auto-stun rule, then the Thralls would live too long and gain skills themselves, turning the team into a super team... imagine 4 Vamps and alot of skilled up Thralls with nothing but auto stun slowing them down - they'd be a nightmare team!.

Thralls are human linmen with 7 AV. they won't be living too long - trust me! But if you go with the weakened vamps like I suggested, then that would be even more interesting, as the vamps get ubered, then the opponents will be looking for those times when the vamp coach lets the super-vamps drop in stats as oppose to biting a thrall - then it is time to strike while they are weak!

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:15 am

Joemanji wrote:Yeah, that's something I thought about once, but I think the paperwork required might put people off. It would work great for a PBeM team though.

Mad Jackal is the star coach with Vampires btw. Where is he?

You flatter me.

The vampire team is all about the thralls. I started with 12 and 5 re-rolls and never regretted it. (Starting out 4-0 was nice too.)

I happen to have rolled agiliy boosts on my first 3 vamps. That makes them serious gazing threats. Which is the key really.

The real trick is forcing yourself not to rely on the vamps. Not to move them even. Heck, not to field them. (I think 3 on pitch is enough unless you have pro on them and a re-roll per turn of the drive elft before I'd field 4 voluntarily.)

Have a plan B if the bloodlust fails and stick with it. The games where I got cute and tried to work through a failed blood lust across a plan is what causes losses. Vamp teams also are very hard a high TV because they have to take so many basic skills like block, tackle, sure hands, fend etc. Just to get basic. By then thier TV is high, and the vamps are expensive. And that thrall habit can get downright expensive too.

Vamps are fun. It takes a whole different mind-set to play them. You have to expect to fail and plan ahead for it more than any other race I've found.