Wrestle

[Buggrit]

Just a quick query about the way that wrestle works. The way that I interpreted the rules if a player on the moving team hits a player on the non moving team that has wrestle and they go down it would cause a turnover (player on the moving side being placed prone = TO) ... but if the player with wrestle is on the moving team and goes down it only causes a turnover if he's holding the ball.

a) am I correct?

b) if not does it mean that wrestle never causes a turnover unless the player involved directly in the block was holding the ball whether on the moving team or the static team?

[tenwit]

Being placed prone never means turnover, unless you have the ball. Being Knocked Down does. Also, a quick glance at the wrestle rule says:

Use of this skill does not cause a turnover unless the active player was holding the ball.

Pretty straight-forward.

[Meradanis]

b) is correct, Wrestle only results in a turnover if the player on the moving team had the ball.

Take a look at the turnover rule on p. 7 of the LRB for reference:

1. A player on the moving team is Knocked Down (being injured
by the crowd or being Placed Prone is not a turnover unless it is
a player from the active team holding the ball … e.g. skills like
Diving Tackle, Piling On and Wrestle count as being Placed
Prone)

[Buggrit]

Being placed prone never means turnover, unless you have the ball. Being Knocked Down does. Also, a quick glance at the wrestle rule says:

Use of this skill does not cause a turnover unless the active player was holding the ball.

Pretty straight-forward.

So if the moving team (offence) blocks a player on the opposing side (defence) with the wrestle skill and the defence chooses to use that skill the offence team doesn't suffer a turnover for being placed prone unless the player making the block was holding the ball?

[Jural]

Being placed prone never means turnover, unless you have the ball. Being Knocked Down does. Also, a quick glance at the wrestle rule says:

Use of this skill does not cause a turnover unless the active player was holding the ball.

Pretty straight-forward.

So if the moving team (offence) blocks a player on the opposing side (defence) with the wrestle skill and the defence chooses to use that skill the offence team doesn't suffer a turnover for being placed prone unless the player making the block was holding the ball?

Correct. That's why when an offensive player without block throws a block against a defensive player with wrestle, the defensive player is usually better off choosing to not use wrestle. A turnover with an armor roll usually trumps no turnover with no armor roll!

[Meradanis]

Correct.

When the Wrestle skill was introduced during the Vault process, my leaguemates and me first thought it would cause turnovers on the moving team. But such a ruling would be very imbalanced, if you think about it. 1/9 of all block attempts against Wrestle players would cause turnovers, so every player would be like a unskilled lino again.

[landrover]

So when on defence, wrestle is really only useful if putting both players down would prevent the blocker/blitzer from moving into the TZ of a ball-carrier, or for blocking the path (with fallen bodies) to the ball-carrier?

[tenwit]

It's very useful for getting annoying blockers off their feet, for avoiding AV/inj rolls (stunties like wrestle.. I'd usually get block on one stunty then wrestle on any others that are lucky enough to get enough doubles), and for forcing opposition coaches to make nasty, nasty decisions vs. side steppers (do I take the both down and leave me vulnerable to fouling, or the push back leaving me against the side line?).

In the hands of a good coach, it is always a potent weapon.

[DoubleSkulls]

Using wrestle when being blitzed stops the blitzing player moving further - and leaves him on the ground, perhaps ready for a nice little foul

[Cramy]

Hmm, never thought about wrestle on stunties. So on a Gobbo team, pick wrestle instead of block. This allows you to get players on the ground when blocking and being blocked, and allows for fouling.

Well, one or two Gobbos with block would still be nice ...

[tenwit]

Yea, I grew to love wrestle after a couple of matches with my first wrestle/side step skink. Opposition would spend most of their four minute turns trying to figure out the odds of a favourable result of a block against that guy. In the end, they'd just choose to block a saurus instead. It was usually safer. For 5 of the 6 options against a player with dodge, wrestle and side step, things come off worse for the attacker.



Awe. Some.

[Wilf]

Am I right in saying you cannot continue moving if you are on the offence and have used wrestle to get an opponent (and yourself) to the ground?

[GalakStarscraper]

Am I right in saying you cannot continue moving if you are on the offence and have used wrestle to get an opponent (and yourself) to the ground?

If you look at the rules for standing up ... it states you can only do this at the beginning of an action. Thus you are right as after you've used Wrestle you are clearly not at the beginning of your action anymore.

Galak

[Wilf]

Was fairly sure that was the case. Thanks Galak.

[Buggrit]

So the only time that wrestle will trigger a turn over is if it's used by a player on the moving team who is holding the ball?!