Dude, is it me or are Vampires bad?

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:56 pm

Where do you stand on Pro Jack? Is it a must first skill, or are things like Block and Dodge more valuable?

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:46 pm

Joemanji wrote:Where do you stand on Pro Jack? Is it a must first skill, or are things like Block and Dodge more valuable?

Vampiers should be used primarily for gazing so I think Pro is the choice above block and dodge. Both of those skills just tempt your vamp to do something he shouldn't. (Or at least until he's tempered his need for blood via Pro.)

I was very happy with Pro+Block as a two skilled vamp.

My further argument is that if your Vamps are taking care of thier own Blood Lusting, you then have re-rolls for the thralls to do more things.

Played "correctly" I think a developed vampire team would for the most part never use team re-rolls on Blood Lust. Plan for a fodder thrall to be bitten, then if the Vamp trys to use lust, Pro it. If that fails, then bite the thrall and move on.(gazing some-one nearby 1st if you can.)

Though some-one suggested Guard+SideStep (two passive skills) and when I re-start a new vampire team this season I am going to try that out on one or two.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:51 pm

Not everyone is going to agree with Pro, but I do. But then again, I like Pro over Block for many big guys too (like Treemen for example).

Any player that has rolling abilities (Take Root, Hynotic Gaze, Jump Up. etc...) benefits from Pro on offense more than Block, IMHO.

fen · Post by **fen** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:15 pm

To provide the counterpoint I don't agree with Pro... on my first two Vampires.

That's because I believe very firmly in starting a casualty war with my opponent when I hit the pitch. As such my first two Vampires are built to kill - Block, Mighty Blow, Piling On and then I'll branch off into other skills (Tackle, Frenzy). Pro I will start considering at skill 5.

The 3rd and 4th Vampires I won't take pro till the 4th skill. These Vampires are designed to avoid using rerolls as much as possible, so they will be more passive - Block, Guard, Side Step, Pro, Diving Tackle. These guys can help out Thralls and don't have to get activated too often.

If I push as far as Vampire #5 then he will get Pro as his 1st or 2nd skill.

The reason I don't take Pro so much is it's too unreliable for the purpose of rerolling Blood Lust so it ends up being used either for rerolling HGs or Blocks or as desperate protection once all the rerolls have run out. I'd rather not get into the situation where I need to rely on Pro.

But; as always, what suits one coach may not suit another. Different hats for different heads.

Btw, the Thralls tend to get Block, some with Sure Hands, at least 2 with Wrestle and as much DP as possible. Once someone hits the floor they are not getting back up if I can help it.

LordWriggly · Post by **LordWriggly** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:40 pm

Just a disturbing idea.

If a Thrall is sucked dry by a Vamp (= the sucker gets himself killed), he's automatically raised as a new Vamp in the reserve box (team can have more than six Vamp until the end of the match only).

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:11 pm

LordWriggly wrote:Just a disturbing idea.

If a Thrall is sucked dry by a Vamp (= the sucker gets himself killed), he's automatically raised as a new Vamp in the reserve box (team can have more than six Vamp until the end of the match only).

Me likey! Kind of like a jacked up Nurgles Rot!

Meradanis · Post by **Meradanis** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:40 pm

I would try to kill my Thralls on purpose during the first game, since I get as many Journeyman Thralls as I need to field 11 players for the next game. Probably would field 2 Vampires and start doing move actions in my backfield, without rerolling any failed Blood Lust rolls.

If I managed a cas agains my Thrall, but no death result, I would use my apo to reroll the result and double my chances for a new Vampire.

I'm not sure if I like this idea.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:16 pm

That idea creates a skill like the old old Wild Animal where folks delibrately re-rolled Wild Animal to try and fail so they could get a 2nd blitz during a turn.

Galak

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:57 am

GalakStarscraper wrote:That idea creates a skill like the old old Wild Animal where folks delibrately re-rolled Wild Animal to try and fail so they could get a 2nd blitz during a turn.

Galak

No, this is WAY better than that old hack trick!

Big-Bad-Bear · Post by **Big-Bad-Bear** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:06 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:That idea creates a skill like the old old Wild Animal where folks delibrately re-rolled Wild Animal to try and fail so they could get a 2nd blitz during a turn.

Galak

Yeah... those were great days... can we bring it back?

Anyways. Is there any effort in development to maybe make the Vamps a more palatable team?

bouf · Post by **bouf** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:54 am

I still like the Idea of a Re-rolled Injury roll on Blood Lust Casualties - Keeping the 2nd result. That way, Thralls will die, but not as many.

~//~

Also, I think a variation of the Nurgle's rot would be cool too.

Rather than the Thrall being placed in reserves as a free vamp, because that's just silly! Why not leave them on the pitch as a Vampire Spawn for one drive.

1> fail BL
2> score casualty on BL roll
3> Kill Thrall
4> Thrall stands up for free and counts as a Vamp Spawn. (taking an action if they haven't already)
~Keep existing skills but add Hypno Gaze, +1 ST & +1 AG (No BL).
5> At the end of the Drive they die as normal as the Blood Fury expires.

That gives the Vamps a Sneaky Unique tactic you'd be crazy to try to exploit. It would make those dead thralls from Blood Lusts suckful

but ultimatly more fun in the long run.

I'd feel a little better about those Thralls I killed myself if they could go out with a bang! And besides, realisticly, how often could this really happen in a game??? Or in a League for that matter?

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:25 am

bouf wrote:2> score casualty on BL roll
3> Kill Thrall
4> Thrall stands up for free and counts as a Vamp Spawn. (taking an action if they haven't already)
~Keep existing skills but add Hypno Gaze, +1 ST & +1 AG (No BL).
5> At the end of the Drive they die as normal as the Blood Fury expires.

That gives the Vamps a Sneaky Unique tactic you'd be crazy to try to exploit. It would make those dead thralls from Blood Lusts suckful but ultimatly more fun in the long run.

I'd feel a little better about those Thralls I killed myself if they could go out with a bang! And besides, realisticly, how often could this really happen in a game??? Or in a League for that matter?

Sooo, at the end of the match, the vampire thrall just......dies?!?! That makes little sense.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:30 am

Meradanis wrote:I would try to kill my Thralls on purpose during the first game, since I get as many Journeyman Thralls as I need to field 11 players for the next game. Probably would field 2 Vampires and start doing move actions in my backfield, without rerolling any failed Blood Lust rolls.

If I managed a cas agains my Thrall, but no death result, I would use my apo to reroll the result and double my chances for a new Vampire.

I'm not sure if I like this idea.

Ummm, if you were my opponent, I'd HOPE you'd do that. While you are wasting your time (less than 3% success), my 11 guys will be man-handling the other 9 guys on your team.

Besides, we all know you can't actually field a lot of vamps. Just not enough thralls to go around. So this is not an unbalanced ability. Just something fun for a tier 3 team.

Rituro · Post by **Rituro** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:31 pm

datalorex wrote:
bouf wrote:2> score casualty on BL roll
3> Kill Thrall
4> Thrall stands up for free and counts as a Vamp Spawn. (taking an action if they haven't already)
~Keep existing skills but add Hypno Gaze, +1 ST & +1 AG (No BL).
5> At the end of the Drive they die as normal as the Blood Fury expires.

That gives the Vamps a Sneaky Unique tactic you'd be crazy to try to exploit. It would make those dead thralls from Blood Lusts suckful but ultimatly more fun in the long run.

I'd feel a little better about those Thralls I killed myself if they could go out with a bang! And besides, realisticly, how often could this really happen in a game??? Or in a League for that matter?
Sooo, at the end of the match, the vampire thrall just......dies?!?! That makes little sense.

Considering that thrall just got a double stat increase and HG for being killed in the first place, I'd be more than happy with my opponent's new shiny toy staying dead after the match.

bouf · Post by **bouf** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:30 am

datalorex wrote: Sooo, at the end of the match, the vampire thrall just......dies?!?! That makes little sense.

Think of it as Burning Hot before you Burn out!

and not the end of the match... The end of the drive.