First Skills for Elves "in general"

Korhil · Post by **Korhil** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 1:55 pm

BloDge is good, however...
LongShot does have sounds logic...
How many skills do you expect you players to get?
2?, Thats likely
3?, For your positional players, mabey 1 lineman
4?, Only the real TD runners.

So, you have to decide if you want a whole team of BloDge with some of the Positional players having a bit more to them, or having players that can do other things as well.
I look to a Balance somewhere between the two.
Generally the Positional players start with one of Block or Dodge, and get more skills any way, so they are fine to get BloDge and other stuff.
LineElves are the worry. Sure, having 3 BloDge, SideStep Elves for the front line would be great... thats a lot of SPP to get for LineElves, and quite an investment of players for the front line.
Having some LineElves with other abilities rounds out the team alot more.
One of the biggest errors I see happening alot is Elf Coaches on getting enough Tackle players, and losing to the other Elf Coach that has a decent number of them.

I usually stick with one of Block or Dodge first up, but the 2nd skill shouldnt always just be the other, you end up with alot of 'gaps' in the team, 16-31SPP is usually alot of work for a LineElf. Especially since your usually buying the rest of your Catchers/Blitzers as you go sicne you cant start with a full roster, and you want to get all of them 2 skills atleast... finding time to get LineElves to 3 Skills is hard...

---Korhil

Ithilkir · Post by **Ithilkir** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:04 pm

With Linelves you will be holding the (duh) line, so making at least three of them (your LoS players) blodgers is very important, you want them to survive the kicking they'll get against four BoBs and an Ogre. I'd develop three LoS players (out of -MA/AG players if you have them). You can then experiment

Keep in mind however, Helfs and Delfs will be fielding at least 4 Lineplayers and likely 5 or 6 so they will rack up SPP quite well (especially if for the first couple of games you have a full Lineplayer roster).

Rogerg1979 · Post by **Rogerg1979** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:06 pm

I don't usually worry about the 3rd skill, that takes care of itself.

For Positional players, yes they are usually only 1 skill away from Blodge, and can therefore pick up nice stuff swifter than other players, and throwers should stick to throwing the ball.

So that leaves Line Elves. In the game, who makes/takes the most blocks? That's right, Linesmen! So keeping them safe is priority, therefore BloDge.

There is no point having a Leader/kick Lineman on the pitch if he can't throw or take a decent block, becuase very quickly he aint going to be on the pitch anymore.

Apart from Elves, only Amazons are assured of getting people with BloDge without relying on doubles, it's one of their major advantages!

<ramble, ramble> Oh yes the point!

If every player on the team ONLY got 2 skills, I would make sure all my Linesmen had BLoDge (or as close as they could get), BloDge helps keep your players on the pitch, and numbers help win games, something your cool combo guy can't do if he's lying 6feet under (and having to develop his replacement!)

Gk.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:15 pm

Rogerg1979 wrote:If every player on the team ONLY got 2 skills, I would make sure all my Linesmen had BLoDge (or as close as they could get), BloDge helps keep your players on the pitch, and numbers help win games, something your cool combo guy can't do if he's lying 6feet under (and having to develop his replacement!)

Gk.

As Korhil said - a team of mixed Block/Tackle and Block/Dodge line elves would beat you every time.

I guess your league isn't very tackle happy.

Rogerg1979 · Post by **Rogerg1979** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:28 pm

Aaah, posting is such sweet sorrow...

That argument is one of the (but then I....) M:tG arguments you hear a lot.

Ok, you'd have a better time against me (assuming all those 1d blocks were going your way), but you'd suffer more against Undead/Chaos/Skaven/Orc/.... etc

The only team that we'd both suffer aginst would be Dwarves.

Blodge is effective against a wider range of opposition than Block/Tackle.

It comes down to the league you're playing in, lots of Dodgin' means Tackle is really useful (but if lots have tackle, fewer will take dodge, meaning tackle suddenly gets less useful.... swings and roundabouts).

My personal preference is BloDge, as it doesn't matter who your playing... Tackle is useless unless your Opp has lots of dodge.

Summary: BloDge is useful more often, Tackle is Opp specific.

Gk.

Korhil · Post by **Korhil** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:27 pm

The teams you listed as my Tackle being useless against, you Dodge will be useless against too...

What Orc/Chaos/Dwarf/Undead team isnt loaded with Tackle?

So, while my own Tackles wont do much to them, your Dodge isnt doing shit all either...

Now, what happens when 2 finesse teams play each other... who wins outright? Me? Thought so...

And, you dont actually need BloDge Sidestep elves for the front line either... cos everyone else will have Tacklers for them in the front, Block SideStep it basically just as effective in the end.

---Korhil

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 10:57 pm

Guys if you play well elves, the opponent team should only block (with its blitz) one of your players, so having blodge for everyone is almost a gift of (16SPP*6players /5) 19 of TTR to your opponents. (I agree it is a little bit over estimated

)

Let me remind some skills or traits to some people who only know two skills

:
Kick : Allow the ball to have its squatter halved, very usefull to take the initiative when defending.
Block Pass : With an AG of 4, the basic elf intercept on 5+, could make difference in a match.
Tackle : Usefull against this mother f***** catcher who annoy you
Strip the Ball : samething
Leap : Usefull to stop a well protected ball carrier (on 3+ only).
Shadowing : Against everything dodging (elf, human, sometime orc ...), very cool combinated with tackle

Nerves of steel : A must be blocked player (C) Longshot, very usefull to oblige your opponent to block this player.
Dirty player : to injury the opponent dirty player

...

IMO, a good team has several skills not only Blodge or Blohty Blow.

Rogerg1979 · Post by **Rogerg1979** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 8:34 am

Everybody keeps banging on about Tackle being better than Dodge...

Ok, if I had Block/Tackle like all of your Elves, where does that leave us? In the case of a league where EVERY team has tackle across the board (Though personally, I've rarely seen such a huge proliferation of tackle), and few people have dodge (Because Tackle is such a better skill) hasen't everybody just wasted a skill?

It would then only be useful against Amazons, and the occasional Positional Elf.

Having BloDge across the board (with Line Evles) makes it easier to do what your trying to do <Hmmm, dodge away, pick up ball, and pass downfield... Whoops that TZ has Tackle, and that one doesn't... guess I'll use him then!>

As for every other team, (This is gonna get me flamed) I don't see tackle in the first two skills for everybody, every Zombie take Block/Tackle, every Chaos warrior, what about MB?... Without tackle all over the place for these teams, my BloDging side is gonna do better than your Elves who are wandering round the pitch with 1 useless skill (Don't see much Dodge in Chaos teams!)

Moving swiftly on... If people do as Trambi says (Dont only worry about two Skills) and do what they suggest, then BloDge comes more useful, 'cos people are taking less tackle as a first skill.

Lastly, this is a long argument and it can't really be resolved as it comes down to personal opinion, luck, and playing style. I've never seen 2 identical starting Elf rosters look the same after 5 games, never mind 10 or 20! It's what does it for you, at the time your playing, in what league your playing in!

Gk.

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 8:44 am

I don't say that blodge is not good, but you have to consider to give other skills in your team to avoid a stereoptypical way to play. I fully agree that you take your skills as you want to, I just give my opinion : To much blodge skills kill some interresting way of playing.

Moreover Father Jervis and Andy have created a large amount of skills (and traits), what a pity to use only two of them.

Rogerg1979 · Post by **Rogerg1979** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 8:53 am

I agree that there is a lot of useful skills out there (You only have to look at my rosters, for all my BLoDge defence, even I get distracted!)

If we talk about a 2 skill situation then your linemen have blodge (unless a gilt edge opportunity presents itself, i.e. +1ST)

Most Positional players either don't require BloDge (offensive throwers for example) or are only 1 or 0 skills away from it, so these players are the ones who gain the cool skills. Having BloDge means the players with these cool skills (and even the Linemen) survive long enough to add to this, especially with Elves (expense and retraining being part of it) as they are relativly fragile.

I agree that a good variety of skills is necessary, but I'd rather give the people with the skills the best chance possible to survive to use those skills. Shadowing/Tackle type combos are Blitzer/Withc Elf type combos, and my origional post was really referring to Linemen.

Gk.

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:02 am

For the linelf you can take :
_ kick for a player in not wide zone nor in scrimmage line, very usefull to counterattack.
_ pass block to stop the pass playing of your opponent
_ dirty player (I don't like) could be usefull, especially against prone gutter-runners.
...
So take three blodge linelf for the scrimmage line, and one kick, one dirty player, one with dodge and block

, ...

Rogerg1979 · Post by **Rogerg1979** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:12 am

Yup... I agree with that.

I suppose I've rambeled away from what I've been trying so say. BloDge is my choice for LINEmen (as in people on the LoS), specialist positions Blitzers, witch elves, etc; take the cool skills and you can groom the specialist linemen for specific situations but I wouldn't have them on the pitch 24/7, a kick guy would only come on if I REALLY needed that kick to be precise, the DP guy would enter if I was planning on permenantly taking out a specific target.

I will add that I have had too many guys with kick/<Enter skill her> die to get retired cos they were missing one part of BloDge, and I like having people sticking around, kick is useless if he's lying in a small box in the dugout (That goes for Vamps too

)

Gk.

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:19 am

Blodge don't prevent your player to dead, with an armor of 8, every one who really want to injury a player, will succeed, with a blitz of a block tackle mighty blow and foul of a dirty player.

Having a armor of 8 and AG4, dodge and move with your elves instead of stay and block.

(...)
I will add that I have had too many guys with kick/<Enter skill her> die to get retired cos they were missing one part of BloDge,(...)

Ok but he has Blodge, he can't use kick since he doesn't have kick !!!
All the BB players are to die on the BB pitch, so they should be at least useful for the team.

Rogerg1979 · Post by **Rogerg1979** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:24 am

I agree that if anyone wants one of my players dead can do so, if I really want one of your players dead, I probably can do so.

In general terms, BloDge is going to keeps you alive longer (Except against specialised Elf killers), especially in the line (where the specialist killer tend not to be, just general psychos).

Gk.

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:34 am

ok so three blodge linelves for the line, and the other skills are possible for linelves. It seems better