Assisting a Dodge

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:29 pm

Players can use weight of numbers to help knock an opposing player over on a block. It seems intuitive that they should be able to help a team-mate escape the clutches of an opponent when dodging away. Consider the following scenario:

Code: Select all

......
..F...
..FO..
..D...
......

D = player about to dodge, F = friendly player, O = opposing player

A player trying to dodge away from here would require a normal roll. But why not allow the friendly players to assist his dodge roll, adding +1 for each friendly player in the TZ of both the dodging player and the opposing player triggering the dodge? Would need some wording to sort out various issues - for example dodging into a cage. Idea inspired by Elfball.

MadLordAnarchy · Post by **MadLordAnarchy** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:01 pm

That's the kind of innovative thinking I like. Would cause all sorts of wrinkles but it's one I might steal.

Podfrey · Post by **Podfrey** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:12 pm

Sorry Joe, I hear your thinking but believe it would be very unwieldy rules-wise. Consider if the 'assister' was himself TZ'd by 3 or 4 unfriendlies, you couldn't really expect him to be in a position to help the dodger. But what if the unfriendlies were themselves TZ'd by other members of the moving team? etc, etc. On balance I think the generic +1 covers it about right. Remember to K.I.S.S.

(Keep It Simple, Stupid)

mlindsay2706 · Post by **mlindsay2706** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:33 pm

i think thats a cool idea, but itd need some working as said in previous post

still one to consider though. it makes sense

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:08 pm

It's an interesting idea that has resemblance to real life football techniques:

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General Skill: Screen
This player is good at getting in the way of opponents who are trying to tackle his teammates. If a teammate dodges into this player's tacklezone, the team mate may ignore the TZsof one opposition player that is adjacent to this player. Further, any teammate who dodges into this player's TZ can add +2 to his roll to avoid being shadowed.

You can now run an orthodox pick play or a bubble screen

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:07 am

lucifer wrote:Sorry Joe, I hear your thinking but believe it would be very unwieldy rules-wise. Consider if the 'assister' was himself TZ'd by 3 or 4 unfriendlies, you couldn't really expect him to be in a position to help the dodger. But what if the unfriendlies were themselves TZ'd by other members of the moving team? etc, etc. On balance I think the generic +1 covers it about right. Remember to K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

Yeah, my first thought (well second I guess) would be how to word it. I think you could work it without too much bother. The blocking assist rules aren't brief.

How about:

"A player may add +1 to a dodge roll for each friendly TZ on the square he is dodging to."

as a compromise on effect for simplicty. Or for a more complicated attempt:

"A player may add +1 to a dodge roll for each friendly TZ on the square he is dodging from or to. These assists may be cancelled in the same way as assists on a block."

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:12 am

I like this one:

Joemanji wrote:How about:

"A player may add +1 to a dodge roll for each friendly TZ on the square he is dodging to."

But I'd go with TZs on the square that he's dodging from. There's likely to be a little more risk (for elves

) if the assisters have to be that much closer to the opposing player. This rule is only going to make the game easier, no point in making it too easy. If everyone could dodge like a wood elf, we'd all be playing khemri.

Well, maybe not.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:14 am

I think it's a creative idea, I think it would be a nasty skill to have with a cage breaker, a loose cage anyway. For that reason, I like it being on the target square, it's too easy to get "assists" on the squares outside the cage, allowing the player to get right in the thick of things.

As for the skill itself, my first thought is that it would make humans the new elves, especially human catchers. My next thought was that it would make bashy teams too mobile, but I don't think it beats break tackle.

Interesting all in all. Useable by every type of team to some degree... not particularly broken on any player (as a 1 still fails!) When one considers leap and Break Tackle, as well as Dodge, I'm just not sure there is room in the game for this skill.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:53 pm

I wasn't thinking of this as a skill, rather a standard rule (in the same way everyone can assist a block).

On the other hand, it could work as a skill too.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:54 pm

I like it as a standard rule.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:00 pm

Hmm, my first thinking is that it may devalue skills like Break Tackle too much if it were a standard ability.

But that's just my preliminary thinking. Definitely a fresh idea.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:54 pm

So you would make the standard cage breakable with a dodge on straight AG.

e.g

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FDF
X_X
_X_
X_X

X= opponent
F = friend
D = dodger

So the 2 corner "assists" would be negated by the friends. Meaning the base +1 for dodging would be cancelled out by the target.

My initial reaction was, that's just far too good as it would make effective caging impossible. But then I realised that might not be such a good thing - especially when you have to commit players to contact to make it work. Obviously it completely breaks the current game balance so most of the game would need to be revised to allow for it, but it might be an interesting way forward for those who want a more open style of play.

stormmaster1 · Post by **stormmaster1** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:37 pm

the cancelling the -1 is a bit too colse to hypnotic gaze imo and in the example above, and it is one the vampire's best weopons.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:28 pm

ianwilliams wrote:So you would make the standard cage breakable with a dodge on straight AG.
...

Ian's diagram shows exactly why this skill needs to be based off the target square, not the square the player initially resided in.

Also, Ian's skill is basically showing that this ability is equivalent to leap for breaking a soft cage... and I mean equivalent, the two F players would be there if you leaped too (so as to cancel out the assists and get an even die hit.)

Leap is still better overall, of course.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:09 am

ianwilliams wrote:So you would make the standard cage breakable with a dodge on straight AG.

e.g
Code: Select all
FDF
X_X
_X_
X_X
X= opponent
F = friend
D = dodger

It doesn't mean much but this is more like how it works in real life. The linemen tie each other up while the play makers slip through the holes.

Not that real life should decide mechanics any more than fluff should...but just pointing out that it seems more natural to me somehow.