Advice on tactics for a new necro player?

thechosengobbo · Post by **thechosengobbo** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:43 am

Hi guys.

I'm looking for some words of wisdom for a new guy starting a league with a necromantic team.

At the moment, he'll be playing against:
Lizardmen
Goblins (me)
Dwarfs
Humans
TBA (elves of some breed)
TBA (either chaos, or humans)
TBA (we have seriously no idea)

He's new to the game. Against two more experienced players, and some other new guys.

The reason I'm only asking for help with the Necros is because I've played the lizards before and done well, and the human team used to belong to the dwarf player. We know how to use them. I've never played with/against any undead team before, and so haven't the faintest idea how to play them.

All I'm asking for is a couple of tricks of the trade for him to use during set up. And possibly a couple of basic plays (though if I can get a whole playbook, I won't complain

). I don't even need skill advice, you have that in the stickied thread.

As it is, I'm just playing him a few times with my goblins to see what he's doing wrong, before we confirm the leagues other teams.

EDIT:- Heh, just realised that posting his team might help

He'll play with either:

1 Flesh Golem
2 Wight
2 Werewolf
6 Zombie
3 Rerolls
with 20k left

or
1 Ghoul
1 Flesh Golem
2 Wight
2 Werewolf
6 Zombie
2 Rerolls
With 20k left

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:05 am

Something doesn't jive on the rosters.... It looks like you posted the same roster twice....

Anyway, here's the two rosters I would consider:

My infamous Graveyard Gothika started with
5x Zombies
2x Flesh Golems
2x Wights
2x Werewolves
2 Rerolls
2 FF

You can read their record at the bottom of the post.... Even after 27 games they have 430k in the bank, have bought and ditched a reroll, replaced a wight, two golems and a werewolf... and bought two ghouls late in their development.... Pretty darned resilient if you ask me....

Pros: Tough, tough line.... Stand firm is not to be underestimated... put the golem in traffic where, even if he goes down, he's a pain.... If you start the two Golems in the wide zones a couple of squares off the line, you can possibly pin the opposing team between two Golems and your five Zombies.... The threat of the Weres and Wights has often bottled up a team and stalled their cage indefinitely... or at least till you blitz the Were out of them....

Cons: Sloooooooooow development on Zombies and Golems.... In addition, you are likely splitting up the Wights and Weres since someone has to fall back to get the ball.... On the other hand, putting a Wight/Were + Golem pair on each sideline is tough....

Second roster is the Graveside Manor (rookie team with only one practice game)
5x Zombies
2x Ghouls
2x Wights
2x Werewolves
3 Rerolls
3 FF

Pros: With the ghouls going back for ball handling, you can pair Wights and Weres up front on each wide zone.... If you use your wights right, then you can set up an opposing player to where the Were gets two 2d blocks with Frenzy... when the Wights get Guard, it's even easier.... Ghouls are fast enough to get the ball upfield, even if the kick is deep... and they throw as well as any other player.... Except on the worst of kicks, you can get the ball and, if necessary, hand it off to another Ghoul who can toss it to a Werewolf that is screened by a Wight....

Cons: No St4 to help the poor, beleaguered Zombies

Still, at the very worst, that's what they're there for.... And a Journeyman Zombie ain't that much worse than a regular player....

Feel free to ask as many questions as is necessary.... I play Necros because they fit my preferred style of play: tough linemen and free-wheelin' runners....

thechosengobbo · Post by **thechosengobbo** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:40 pm

Thanks alot.

I'll probably have a couple of questions later on, but for now thats exactly what I needed. (i DID post the same list twice, funny that... Changed it now)

I can work the rest out when I have a couple of practice games against him.

Thanks again!

gobbo

Leipziger · Post by **Leipziger** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:54 am

I'd go (and have, in the past, gone) with the second line-up that VL suggests:

5x Zombies
2x Ghouls
2x Wights
2x Werewolves
3 Rerolls
3 FF

Although you don't get access to the Golems, you still have enough on your team to get some points on the board (especially now the wolves regen

). I prefer to play a fast attacking necro game rather than the slow cage, so this suits me.

The other thing is that with 2 golems and 2 rerolls, you'll often find yourself quickly out of rerolls because of both down/skull results.

Keep us posted, Duncan

Buggrit · Post by **Buggrit** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:25 pm

My 1,100 Necro squad started out as

2 x Fleshies
2 x Weres
2 x Wights
5 x Zombies
2 x Re Rolls.

They've played about 11 games and have recruited several new zombies from the deaths of opposition players., my 1st Fleshie has skilled up quickly and one were + one wight have both gotten MA+ with the were also gaining block to make him a massive blitz (KO Table) threat!

razorclaws · Post by **razorclaws** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:47 pm

I'd personally take 3 rerolls

ngoike · Post by **ngoike** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:34 pm

I agree in recommending 3 rerolls. I also play the non-golem all zombie starting list shown above, one possible change that is worth considering is dropping a ghoul and 1 FF, and replace that with 2 additional zombies.

This gives you 12 starting players, which is nice if you start off against some bashy teams. Losing 1 ghoul doesn't reduce your speed much as a team. You'll want to quickly pick up another ghoul though, as if you only have 1 it tends to gain skills than die when least conventient.

thechosengobbo · Post by **thechosengobbo** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:07 pm

die when least conventient.

Doesn't it say that on your players contracts somewhere?

I've taken a couple of lists, and I'll be playing him on tuesday with both, against a weak goblin team to help him get the hang of basic tactics.

I'll let you guys know how it turn out...

Meradanis · Post by **Meradanis** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:51 pm

thechosengobbo wrote:I've taken a couple of lists, and I'll be playing him on tuesday with both, against a weak goblin team to help him get the hang of basic tactics.

I'll let you guys know how it turn out...

I wouldn't do it this way. He won't learn those basic tactics by playing against Gobbos. Let him play against a Human team, but try to go easy on him. He will learn much more this way, in my opinion.

ngoike · Post by **ngoike** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:45 pm

In my opinion the LRB5 necromantic team is one of the harder teams to play with. That may make it difficult to learn with, can't say for sure, been playing too long.

Part of this is because it starts without a fair amount of it's positional players. Also because it's not a bashy team, nor is it a high agility team, it lies somewhere in between and takes some experience to get a lot out of it. Similar to human, but much less forgiving.

Playing against goblins is interesting with either setup.

They're strength 2, so everything is effective against them.
Assuming you use trolls, he may learn the value of claw, or golems depending on his preferences.
He can see what dodge does for you when you dodge all around his zombies.

thechosengobbo · Post by **thechosengobbo** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:56 pm

Let him play against a Human team, but try to go easy on him.

I'd love to. But our human player is a 'win at all costs' player who won't tone down for new guys. Oh, and if we touch his team he'll have a fit, so no borrowing

And at least the gobbos wil be easier to teach him the game rules he doesn't know yet...

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:00 pm

Goblins are a good team to play, in training, with built in forgiveness.... Leave out the Trolls and SWs in the first game (if you have the time); intro the Trolls in the second and SWs in the third....

Review, on key plays, what might've/would've happened if that had been a Human/Orc/Elf team....

I think the assumption is that you would have access to a human and orc team if you have the game... and not have to rely on 'Hubris the Humie' for help....

thechosengobbo · Post by **thechosengobbo** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:58 pm

Well, it took a LONG time to get our schedules to match, but we got a couple of days last week. He used both variations of the list that Mr Goreman posted.

Day one, a couple of games with a goblin team (match one-pure gobbos, match two-two trolls).

Games one: Mostly explaining a couple of plays, and a couple of rules he didn't get. He starts to put together a couple of nice plays 'un-coaxed' and picks the hints up fast. Move on to game two.

Game two: Trolls presented a problem. But he sailed through after I showed him what his flesh golems were for. Again, put together some nice plays without help.

Day two, I remembered I had a shadowforge elf team, and a lizardmen team

Game one, elves: He remembered all the rules, even a few days after the last game (one thing I didn't need to worry about). He put together some nice plays to stop my game. I had given up 'coaxing' his plays too, aside from explaining the pros of my team.

Result? A very closely fought draw (1-1). I didn't have the heart to tell him I hadn't played DE before, even if I AM a very fast learner.

Game two, lizards. Appalling luck on my part in the first two turns let him score early on (ball touched out, went onto a werewolf, 1st block on my turn was failed with a re-roll, same for 2nd turn).

Then it was on. I crushed him into a two turn touchdown, bringing it to a draw, then I eased off the throttle for my team a little. Again, he made his own plays very well, came up with some nice plays, and made me 'fight' to stop his scores. Result? A very narrow 2-1 to him (last turn touchdown).

So I can safely say he's learned the game. And he's learned to use his team after some initial advice. A couple more games and I could probably try him with my gobbos or lizards and play fully competetively and have a tough game on my hands.

Though there is a problem. He doesn't like the team, after all. He wants to start ogres, despite the learning curve involved (especially for a new player).

Hopefully, this time he'll have a demo game or two BEFORE buying the team

Thankyou everyone for the help, it was much appreciated (and co-incidentally, saved in case I decide to try necros in the distant future)

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:09 pm

I guess it's not his style... which I find amazing...

But, having said that, I came into Necros almost by chance.... I had never considered them when a friend asked if they would make a good starting (rookie w/a rookie team) team? I scanned the boards and concluded that, with mixed reviews (mostly bad, iirc), I would'nt suggest using them.... Then I decided to try them myself, as a bit of an adoption of a "weaker" team, and the rest is history! My play style seems to match the best the Necros have to give... lucky, I guess....

Hopefully your friend will find that match, too....

thechosengobbo · Post by **thechosengobbo** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:30 am

The way he played, I'd assume orcs would fit him. Possibly lizardmen. But he doesn't seem to listen to us...

I played the ogres today with an all goblin team. I wiped the board with him (two dead ogres from fouling went a LONG way towards that). 4-0, conceded game.

Now he's a little stuck for choice. Going from his other gaming preferences I keep offering him the orcs from the starter box, but he refuses...