intersting question

poochée · Post by **poochée** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:17 pm

Hi,

after a weekend of very brutal and bashy bloodbowl matches I started thinking about following question:

If You were to start in a pure bashy league (with high prcentage of dwarf and chaos dwarf teams) and you would chose the one single finesse team, which one should it if you want to have the best chances to survive (and even go for the league trophy)???

So, what teams would you take and why??

fen · Post by **fen** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:57 pm

I'd play High Elves. Mostly AV8 players combined with ST3 Catchers mean you can build an agressive, mobile team that doesn't need to invest too many skill rolls in "scoring skills" and can concentrate on building for the defensive drive. I've seen them do very well with Block + Fend (instead of Blodge) in leagues with a high proportion of Tackle. Especially with a couple of +AVs on various players and a smattering of Guard thanks to doubles.

Grogmir · Post by **Grogmir** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:06 pm

Well - they all have there plus points but my vote would be between;

Wood Elves - I know they have the least armour but they can really dominate a game meaning they don't have to engage.
Dark Elves - Take a 7 Linemen 4 blitzer roster and in 3 games you'll have enough clout to stick with most teams and enough latent agility to do the things them slow bashy dwarfs can't.

Grog.

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:21 pm

I'd go High Elves or Dark Elves.

With the Dark Elves, start with linemen and 4 Blitzers. Get the Witch Elves after that. Get 3-4 Rerolls. Get Runners later, if you think that they'll be useful (not convinced here because of their low AV, I don't think I'd use them). Assassins are a waste of money against high AV teams. But if there are lots of teams with low AV and lots of block/dodge (Norse, Lizards), then the Assassin can be good. But only later, but likely never. Try to mainly rely on AV8 players.

Haven't played High Elves too much. Careful with the Catchers because of their low AV. But once you give them a few protection skills (block/dodge or block/fend), then they should survive OK.

The key is to give the teams skills to not engage the opponent (fend and dodge do that), stay on their feet (dodge, fend and block do that), and outmaneuvre the opponent (dodge and fend do that).

They will also need ball extraction / turnover skills, like wrestle, strip ball, leap, kick. Kick is a must, and should probably be your first lineman skill.

As Fen said, guard on doubles, for both teams.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:39 am

Pro Elves. The line-elves are only 2/3 as tough for 6/7 the price, but those Side Step Blitzers make a very very tough go of it for bash teams. Just improve each lino once, and you've got an extremely cost-effective guy with Block or Side Step or Dodge. Play shallow so you keep resetting the board and forcing your opponent into playing 5 blocks per drive: at that rate, you should be able to manage your casualties well, and that's the difference maker. AV8 High Elves really aren't any less risky: lacking the SS/NOS positionals they often have to stick it out longer. A Pro Elf team that gives up 6 blocks will take damage at the same rate as a High Elf team that gives up 9, and will earn SPPs much more quickly.

If the real difference maker is toughness, of course, play Dark Elves. Four Blitzers, seven Line-Elves, two RRs, 1FF... what can go wrong?

Grogmir · Post by **Grogmir** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:49 am

Ok Matt if I can't convince you off my arguement for DE's... how about another crazy suggestion.

Vampire's!? - with the new rule helping them a touch it's an interesting time to try them and i've seen vampires make mincemeat out of cages with their gaze.

Ok i'll take my meds.

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:09 am

Lizardmen

Not the one of most finesse teams, but certainly as fast as it can be. With 6 saurus and a krox that can take punishment and give pain and still room for 4 superfast skinks that can run past the slow hard hitters that probably will be tied up with the saurus and krox.

When skinsk goes down, there is problems, but not let them hurt the skinks and you will have a very fast MA8 running game.

If you choose elfs, pick darkies. Good AV and 4 blitzers that already have block. Use the runners as baits, dump-off and score. Witch elfs are good, but stay away from danger when you block with frenzy.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:28 am

Vampires don't meet the "best chances to survive (and even go for the league trophy)" requirement (well, maybe in the second season). And lizardman are definitely not finesse. Both would be very good in that league though. High and Dark Elves would be the best AG4 teams for the league, and if the league is decided on goal difference they'd have a very good chance. If it's decided on number of wins, it might be tougher: a few 4-0 wins won't help if you've got a lot of 2-1 losses.

Of the higher skill teams, Humans would have a good chance of beating those tougher teams, and they have tougher star players (and a chainsaw!) than the elf teams, which will help if the league is already established. If they get a few +AG upgrades, they'll become a finesse team.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:07 am

One good thing about starting elves in a purely bashy league is many opponents will think twice about taking tackle as a skill pick because it's only really usefull against 1 team.
I'd pick the dark elves because of the 4 blitzers and the easy crowdpush potential.

JumpingElf · Post by **JumpingElf** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:12 am

Vampires? No! Last season played a Vampire-Team with in my league and the coach had to play against a Dwarf- and an Undead-Team. Against the Dwarfs he got 8 casualities (7 Thralls (3 killed)) and 1 Vampire killed) and against the Undead 9 casualities (7 Thralls, 2 Vampires). They really beat the sh.. out of those poor Thralls ...

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:08 pm

Agree with Fen.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:47 pm

TuernRedvenom wrote:One good thing about starting elves in a purely bashy league is many opponents will think twice about taking tackle as a skill pick because it's only really usefull against 1 team.
I'd pick the dark elves because of the 4 blitzers and the easy crowdpush potential.

That's only really true early in the season. After 5 or 6 games, many of the heavier teams will have at least a little Dodge, and most of them will at least build one Tackler. This is especially true against teams with Dodgers on the base list, like Undead, Orcs and Lizardmen, but Dodge is a common first doubles selection Blitzers and P-access Runners (like Dwarfs). So, while the best strategy for developing, say, Orc Blitzers might change from rushing out and giving the first one Tackle, I'd be very tempted to put MB in as a first skill on what will eventually evolve into the same player.

Of course, Elf teams don't start with Dodge, except Wood Elves and maybe one player on a DE team. By picking both Dodge and Side Step for some players, you'll also play havoc on opponents' decision-making vis-a-vis Tackle, by mitigating its effect on non-Grab players. You might see a little Grab late in a long season anyway, but you can rest assured that it'll be like a 4th selection at best on players who skill slowly for their first three rolls or so. Seeing your SS, they'll make it a 3rd selection maybe, but they'll still put it on not-too-mobile players who otherwise would go up on your line with a better skill instead.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:40 pm

For me HE/DE are more neutrally inclined - i.e. they can bash when the want to. However you probably won't ever really want to bash, you'll only want speed and movement. So Wood Elves.

Hopefully you'll find the other teams low on the skills that really hurt (especially tackle) since they'll be concentrating on skills that help against the other bash teams (e.g. guard).

Just keep playing a stand off defence to limit opposing hits on your players and minimise fouling opportunties against your key players.

Da_Great_MC · Post by **Da_Great_MC** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:46 pm

I'd play Dark Elves in a bashy league.

AV8 + AG4 + 4 Blitzers + 2 Witch Elves vs only bashing teams = cheating

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm

I like Wood, Dark and Pro Elves because they give you a leg up in the skill race. Especially Wood and Pro Elves, as it's hard for DEs to start with more than one Witch. Pro Elves have an easier time coming back from a bad game or recovering from losses than do Wood Elves, and get more of a leg up on those Blodge/Sidestep cornerbacks (the WDs have to pull too much weight) so important to the two-turners that keep your team alive.

Then again, universal MA7 never hurts.