Starting Wood Elves

[one_second_of_insanity]

I would like to say this is my first post on these forums, and whislt having read a lot of what has been said am also new to the game so not quite everything has sunken in yet (I think)

I have drawn up the following 1million roster and am limited by minis with the amount of line elves I can pack in.

7 Line Elves
2 Wardancers
2 Postionals (either 2 catchers or 1 catcher and 1 thrower, looking for advice here)
1 RR
3 FF
1 Cheerleader

Now what I am looking at is expanding this to a 1.2 million roster for an upcoming tourney. It is a resurrection style tourney where we can also have up to 4 skils (no more than one each player) as well. Any help for this would be great.

By the way the models that I have available to increase the roster are:
2 more postionals
1 Treeman
plus sideline characters

[Aliboon]

If it is a resurrection tornie, then you won't need a Tree as all he does is absorb punishment and prevent injuries to your fragile linos.

I'd say that 1 RR isn't enough, but with what you've got in models, you can't seem to get a 2nd unless you swap a wardancer for a catcher (at least for 1M), but i wouldn't do this as they will win you games and already have a dodge reroll and will make blocking safer with their block.

Not too sure about the 3ff either-i reckon that 2 ass coaches and 2 cheerleaders would help u more on the koff results.

Otherwise, 1 catcher is not enough on his own, either go 0 or at least 2.

Skill choices: strip ball on at least one of the wardancers (if not both)
kick on a lino
then it is up to u on what other players you have. Blodge is great, so you might wanna give a catcher block. Or if you have a thrower, then accurate might be worth having, otherwise leader, for a cheap reroll.

But all you really need is strip ball and kick.

[PubBowler]

In the first instance (TV100) with mimited models, I would suggest asking those you play against to let you use your thrower as a lineman in the short term.
Actually I'd suggest they let you use the all the models you want as linemen but assuming they're pushing the WYSIWYG then that's an easy swap and gives you

240 2 Wardancer
180 1 Catchers
560 8 Linemen
20 FF2

Catcher for ball carrying (along with whichever linemen needs the SPPs) & Wardancers for ball hunting.

As for TV120 tournie you could have a pretty tasty squad. But it depends on what you're going to buy.
With no model limitations:

240 2 Wardancers
120 Treeman
360 4 Catchers
350 5 Linemen
100 2 Rerolls
30 1FF, AC & CL

I don't normally recommend a treeman for tournie play but with so much cash I think why not. A reserve which is almost unheard of for a tournie Wood Elf team. And lots of reroll skills to cut down the effect of only (!) two rerolls.

As for skills, assuming normal only.

Wardancer: Strip Ball
Wardancer: Frenzy (or Tackle if you're concerned about your posistioning).
Lineman: Kick

4th skill you have options:
Block or Sure Hands on a Catcher to make them a better ball carrier.
Dauntless on a Linemen or Catcher.
Wrestle or Tackle on a Linemen to help with Blodgers.

[one_second_of_insanity]

Thank you for your help so far guys, it is much appreciated, it does look like I will need to purchase some more minis but it isnt like it is going to break the bank, probably look at another 2 line elves and 2 catchers.

The skill suggestions are extremely helpful as well (yes we are limited to normal skills only and they dont count towards the TV)

[mattgslater]

1.2M
2x Wardancer
2x Catcher
7x Line-Elf
1x Treeman (for more than just protecting guys: the guy's a titan on defense)
3x RR
1x AC
1x CL

You could trade the Treeman out for a Line-Elf and an Apothecary, in case a Wardancer gets taken out (heck, if you just use it on the first BH you suffer after you've taken a Cas it's more than paid for itself). You could also trade out the Treeman, AC and CL for two more Linos, and have 13 players to start (4xRR is overkill for Wood Elves).

[Grogmir]

For a 1M line up I would choose

2 Wardancers, 1 Catcher, 8 LineElfs, 2 ReRolls, 10k either FF or keep in Bank.

For the 1.2 Tourni.

2 Wardancers, 1 Catcher, 1 Thrower, 9 LineElfs, 3 ReRolls.

Skills: Block on Catcher,
Sure Hands or Accurate on Thrower,
Then either Dogge on LE, Frenzy/Side Step on WarD's.

my 4p
Grog.

[mattgslater]

Oh... Skills:

I'd do one of these:

A)
WD1: Side Step
WD2: Side Step
Tree: Guard
LM1: Kick

B)
WD1: Side Step
WD2: Strip Ball
LM1: Side Step
LM2: Kick

Code: Select all

- - - -|- - L T L - -|- - - -
- S - -|K L - - - L W|- - S -
- - C -|- - - - - - -|- C - -

C = Catcher, K = Kicker, S = Side Stepper; W = WD or LM

With 4 skills, nobody'll have any Grab. The only way in is on the inside, and that means knocking down the lumber or making an extra dodge. It also means blitzing a rookie lino, 'cause there's no other way in without a KO or Cas on the Side Step guy.

Trees are great, and not just because they save lives: they save drives. They can't be pushed, so a half-die vs. a Tree (assuming attacker has Block) yields success only 25% of the time, as opposed to a ~31% chance of turnover. That's not much better than a 3+ dodge. If they can't use Block to knock the tree down, the chance of turnover only increases to 44.44%, because you won't take a both-down unless the alternative is a pow, but the chance of "success" (defined as opening a hole assuming both the lino on the line and the one behind get taken out w/o problem) drops to 11.11%, because a hole isn't a hole if it ends your turn. Trees with Guard are even better against opponents without vast quantities of +ST or Guard, but a rookie Tree is still a good buy to fight Orcs, because they will put enough on him to put him down (after all, they can), leaving the rest of your guys with a lighter load. Dwarfs are a different story, but you know how that goes: you either run up the score or lose ignominiously.

The key, though, is the cornerbacks with Side Step. If you can hold both the line and the wide zones, you can score on defense every other turn (see how far up everyone is in the diagram? That's so they're all two-turners: Quick Snap be damned). That's how Elves win.

[Cramy]

For the roster, no tree for me. Max-out the Wardancers. I'd get at least 2 RRs. So my roster would be similar to Grogmir's.

For skills though, Wood Elves need to be able to extract the ball from bashy teams. They don't really need help scoring. Wardander with strip ball is essential. Lino with kick is also essential. Allows for your strip-baller(s) to try to get to the ball carrier (or the ball itself if it's on the ground) before your opponent cages-up. Essential when playing against experienced bashy coaches.

I really like to have a wrestle, strip ball player when playing elves. Not sure how to fit that in with Wood Elves though. War Dancer as they already have block ... but leap really helps getting him in the the cage.

[mattgslater]

For the roster, no tree for me. Max-out the Wardancers. I'd get at least 2 RRs. So my roster would be similar to Grogmir's.

For skills though, Wood Elves need to be able to extract the ball from bashy teams. They don't really need help scoring. Wardander with strip ball is essential. Lino with kick is also essential. Allows for your strip-baller(s) to try to get to the ball carrier (or the ball itself if it's on the ground) before your opponent cages-up. Essential when playing against experienced bashy coaches.

I really like to have a wrestle, strip ball player when playing elves. Not sure how to fit that in with Wood Elves though. War Dancer as they already have block ... but leap really helps getting him in the the cage.

If I understand right, he's got enough money that by maxing out on WDs and getting 2 RRs with 11 guys, he's got 230k left for upgrades. What other purchases would you make?

Also, given that he gets four guys each with one skill, he can't get a Wrestle/Strip Ball player. Strip Ball is truly awesome on a WD in a limited-skill environment.

Cramy is totally right about how to approach Elves: don't spend any effort thinking about offense once you've got a basic strategy. Offense in general doesn't matter so much if you're winning, and playing offense with elves is easy.

[one_second_of_insanity]

Thank you again, I am learning a lot and quite quickly as well, I can see the strategy that each roster is applying and hopefully that will help in dealing with coaches that are a LOT more experienced than me (to my knowledge I am the only rookie coach in what is looking to be a 30+ player tourney).

I do have a question concerning the Tree though (in the 1.2 roster) should they be present in both the defensive and offensive setups and leave on Line Elf in the reserve box or should he only make an appearance in the defensive line ups?

The 1.2 roster does seem to open the comp up a lot and allow a lot of freedom, I am not sure what I will be facing as almost everyone else has multiple teams that will give a good cross section across all teams. We are also playing the Stunty cup in the main tourney so I am perhaps expecting maybe a higher than normal percentage of stunty teams to battle out for this most coveted trophy.

[mattgslater]

Thank you again, I am learning a lot and quite quickly as well, I can see the strategy that each roster is applying and hopefully that will help in dealing with coaches that are a LOT more experienced than me (to my knowledge I am the only rookie coach in what is looking to be a 30+ player tourney).

Wow. You must have serious guts, playing such an advanced team as a rookie. How much have you played? Play some games against friendly veterans before going in, whatever you answer to that question. Get used to these different skill selections. I'm not sure how new you are, but there's lots of pointers online available. How are your skills with Tackle Zones? If you still need to develop those, get a bash team next and get good with that before you get back into elves (after this tourney, of course). You'll see why when you do.

I do have a question concerning the Tree though (in the 1.2 roster) should they be present in both the defensive and offensive setups and leave on Line Elf in the reserve box or should he only make an appearance in the defensive line ups?

It doesn't matter much, but I say yes to Tree. Your goal should be to have but one offensive setup per game, and it'll always work in two turns unless Nuffle says otherwise (and he sure does, sometimes). I'd field him on offense to get off a good 3d start on the line-blocking (or 2d on a +ST guy), which is about as reliable as you can get given the multiple duty the WDs have to perform. He's also good for tying down big guys, who won't have much BT in these rules. He's only bad if the drive goes wrong (or long), but that's bad for you with or without him. You know you're doing it right if you're scoring a lot and always resetting every couple-few turns. Allowing enemy TDs (even takeaways) is not so bad if you hurry them. The worst thing that can happen is that your opponent gets control of the clock and sits on the drive.

EDIT: Oh, and foul out any Snow Trolls before you field a Tree on D (on O, only do so if the Snow Troll is on the line; then you can use the Tree to block him down... maybe). A Tree is also good for moving off nose tackles with Guard, where you can't otherwise get any net assists. He's also your only Guard option in these rules.

The 1.2 roster does seem to open the comp up a lot and allow a lot of freedom, I am not sure what I will be facing as almost everyone else has multiple teams that will give a good cross section across all teams. We are also playing the Stunty cup in the main tourney so I am perhaps expecting maybe a higher than normal percentage of stunty teams to battle out for this most coveted trophy.

Sounds fun.

[TuernRedvenom]

1.2 k roster:

2 wardancers
4 catchers
1 treeman
4 linemen

3 rerolls
1 apo
1 cheerleader

first 2 skills should always be:
strip ball on a WD
kick on a lino

Play aggressively on defence (this doesn't mean leaving your whole team in TZ's every turn though ) and conservatively on offence. If you take a few turns longer to score that's no problem! This team is fast and skilled, use it! Redeploying your team is easy so don't be afraid of overcommitting too much.
Definately practice with it for a few games vs bashy teams. You need to know when to strike on defence vs a cage and how to do it properly. There's still tons and tons for you to learn though so good luck!

I'm not a big fan of Matt's Side Stepping defence though. Sure your opponent likely can't get through on turn 1 after receiving. But he doesn't need to because he's not trying to score asap. Not many players will try to rush to your endzone, they will try to build up a solid cage first and then try to crush your team while it rolls forward. Strip Ball on a wardancer and kick makes them worry about protecting the ball more instead of pummeling you down and it still gives you a decent shot at stealing the ball if you build it up right. You don't need to turn your opponent over every 2 turns, just once is enough!
Once you have strip ball and kick you can start thinking about side step.

[mattgslater]

4 Catchers? That sounds fun.

How do you set up the defense, Tuern?

[TuernRedvenom]

depends on the opponent

vs other woodies:

Code: Select all

    | L T L |    |
    |       |    |
 L  |W     W|  L |
 C  |  C C  |  C |

(actually I stole this setup from Yavatol, one of the highest ranked wood elf coaches in the world )

you can swap one of the centre catchers with a lino once you have kick and then kick it short.

vs bashy teams it really depends whether they have tackle or frenzy. If they have tackle protecting the dancers becomes priority. Frenzy means you pinch the first guy in the wide zones one more to the middle. Against slow teams I sometimes set up my front 3 all the way to the left of the LoS and then try to kick deep and right. If it goes deep you can often split their team in half by setting up a screen in the middle.
Once you get side step the whole thing changes again as 1 player can hold the wide zone.

[mattgslater]

I'm not a big fan of Matt's Side Stepping defence though. Sure your opponent likely can't get through on turn 1 after receiving. But he doesn't need to because he's not trying to score asap. Not many players will try to rush to your endzone, they will try to build up a solid cage first and then try to crush your team while it rolls forward.

A very shallow set-up makes it harder for an opponent to protect the ball at the expense of offering a way in (that is, a too-thin screen), and turns all of your players into two-turners with no GFI required. Side Step closes the way in, effectively providing that much extra MA for your entire back 8.

Strip Ball on a wardancer and kick makes them worry about protecting the ball more instead of pummeling you down and it still gives you a decent shot at stealing the ball if you build it up right.

Agreed.

You don't need to turn your opponent over every 2 turns, just once is enough!

The more often you score, the fewer chances you have to get hurt.

Once you have strip ball and kick you can start thinking about side step.

Yeah, but you get four skills, right? Strip Ball: check. Kick: check. 2x SS is plenty enough to change the game. Unfortunately, 1x SS and 0x SS have about the same value, so it's a two-or-nothing deal.