Beating a TV 240 WE team...

[ClayInfinity]

I agree with the Bribes / Foul option...

Tackle the dodgers down and lay the boot. Hopefully your #13 will have a field day!

[plasmoid]

PS: wizard, 2 bribes, a babe and an apoth.
Apoth for returning the first dwarf that gets nailed by the tree.

Cheers
Martin

[mattgslater]

That Apoth idea isn't bad. The "bashy ideal" Martin talks about, though, kick first, give up TD, score in 6 or 7, score in 8, that's not going to happen this time. You can't do it. I mean, your Chaos Dwarfs can't do it against these Wood Elves. I'm not saying it doesn't come out that way sometimes, but I have one problem with the philosophy in general and another one with its application here:

a) if you can rely on your team to hold onto the ball for 8 turns and have any confidence in your defense, you can do better than that; and

b) you can't rely on it, because your boyz are out of their depth against that takeaway threat.

I say in this case (and this is very situational advice) receive first if you can, take the Tree down, and send Yevgeni after WD#10 (use PO on armor or to re-roll a KO, but not for a Stun: that just begs a foulin' next turn). Play the man, not the ball. If you receive, BH an important player, fail to maintain your cage, give up a 2T TD, and receive again, you're in a better spot than if you kick, suffer a casualty, give up a 2T TD, and then receive. And that's a bad outcome receiving vs. a probable outcome kicking. Sure, you let them have their KOs back... but you can't count on KO anyway, and the momentum really does matter more. BB is a much more psychological game than people usually credit.

But really, you need key early casualties (at least one WD, and hopefully either the other or the Tree), and you should bet the bank on getting them because if you don't you can't win. You're only going to beat him on offense or defense if he's out key players. Otherwise, he'll score in two, takeaway, score in 3... and that's pretty much the game on Turn 5 of the first half.

Big Mo, and Big 'Urtin baby. That's what matters in a game like this. For you, 'Urtin makes mo' Mo, so 'urt 'urt 'urt!

[plasmoid]

Hi Mattg,
for the record - as long as he can maintain the cage I showed, the wood elfs won't be taking anything away. (Barring great dice - in which case the wizard should be used to take the ball back).

So I stand by my advice - run that cage while you try to CAS a few key players (and avoid the tree until it takes root, or until you have to whack it).

That, and the wood elfs OTS players are sorely lacking.
Looks good to me

[Cramy]

I agree with Plasmoid. Block, Sure Hands Hobgobbo gets the ball, cage-up with a Guard Dwarfs on each corner, and slowly move forward. Any hit on the ball carrier will be two dice CDs chose, so that's not so bad. If he misses, then smack him, ideally with the CD with Mighty Blow and Piling On. He'll be down in your cage, so Piling On is not a big risk. Keep the Dirty Player close to try to finish-off the WD.

Obviously he may get your ball carrier down, but you can mitigate that. Keep lots of players around your cage, like a mine field. This has two effects. First it makes it hard for the WDs to move in and leap in the cage. Force him to make a dodge or two first. Second, if the WD knocks the ball loose, there is more chance that the ball lands on one of your guys, who can catch it, or lands on the ground with you having TZs on the ball. That's very important. He WILL leap and try to make you drop the ball. If he succeeds, you want to make sure that it is very difficult for him to pick-up the ball.

All that side step will be hard to deal with. This is another reason to take it slow with the cage. If one or more side steppers have TZs on your cage, then hit them first. They will sidestep in your cage. You want Dwarves (or Hobgob with tackle) who haven't moved yet to hit them until they fall. If your cage stalls for a couple of turns while you smack side steppers, it's not so bad. Don't get nervous and dash for the EZ before you know that you can reach it safely, or it's the 8th turn of the half.

The Tree will probably be in the center of the LoS, so pick a side to cage-up and move forward in. Then the Minotaur becomes a threat to push his players in the crowd while the cage moves up slowly. That helps you keep an opening close to the sidelines. Especially with Juggernaut, if you can get a player in the crowd with the Mino, do it. Frenzy/Juggernaut can also be useful to blitz those sidesteppers, especially if you get 3 dice blocks. Caveat ... If it is a critical blitz (i.e. the player must be at least pushed if not knocked down), avoid using the Mino. Wild Animal can really screw-you up.

I'd stick a HobGobbo without SPPs on the Tree, and let the tree hit him until he roots. Ideally put the Hobgob in a position such that if the Tree pushes him, he will go in the opposite side of where your cage is. The Tree has Multiple Block and Claw (no Block), both of which are useless against a single Hobgobbo. If the play has moved away and the tree has not rooted yet, then dodge away and join the play. Make sure that the Tree can't reach your cage until you score though. If the Hobgobbo dies, frankly, who cares? You have 15 players, and 2 HobGobbos without any SPPs.

If he kicks deep (and he probably will), make sure that you have a few players back to protect the ball and the ball carrier. If he can reach the ball, put at least two players next to the ball (front corner squares) in case you miss the pick-up, and to protect the ball carrier once he picks-up the ball. On your second turn, move towards the Dwarves to form-up the cage. A common mistake is to concentrate too much on building the cage close the the LoS, and forget to protect the ball carrier in your back-field. You will have a couple of Elves trying to sack your ball carrier in your back-field for sure. Make sure they can't get shots at the ball carrier. Once you have caged-up properly, then start to push upfield.

Now, it will be a tough game. A slight mistake on your part, and he is likely to steal the ball and score on you.

Good luck.

[frogbear]

So when is the game and when do we get an indepth rundown of how the game went?

Very interested in seeing who's gameplan you adopt and how it went.

That Treeman is an abomination and should be put down....

[Tarp]

the game is this evening.
as for tactics, I`m all for the cage n beat up the elves, but I suck at breaking armor (yes you can suck at that) so it might not work very well.

I need the wizard, the take a way he can make is critical, if he works (damn 2+ rolls)

but for the chef vs 2 bribes 1 apo, I`m still in doubt, although leaning away from the chef, because he might do squat. And the ekstra apo might come in handy with that psycopatic, claw wielding tree of his.

oh, an thanks for all the feedback, its always nice with some new angels on old tactics

[Tarp]

http://www.kyndes.bloodbowlleague.com/d ... ?p=m&m=245
(Link to the match report card)

Took bribe x2, babe, wizard and an ekstra apo
so I lost... But only after overtime and a failed dodge with a bull so I could not score in my reciving half of it.

The game started rather poorly for me, he won the cointoss and rolled a pitch invasion, witch took down 6 of my players, leaving me little to no chance of stopping his turn 3 TD, his kickoff a riot stole 2 turns, so I just keept the ball
not wanting to risk anything, he made 2 cas in the first half. A CD who was apoed an the tackle hobo (I dont use apo on those, not with a claw tree around)... I did mange to foul his wardancer and get a nig. apoed to a kill, he chose the nig.

Second half went alot better, me getting the ball in a good cage fast, and making alot of cas, and fouling like crazy.
After the bribes where used I roled no doubles, so good times Scored in my last turn, and he failed his one turn try.

overtime went not so good, he recived again, scored and I made no real damge.
My reciving half hhis kick ofcause ended in my own endzone and due to a failed bull dodge I could not make it to his... so 2-1 WE
I`ll get em next time
previus games he won 5-0, 3-1 and now 2-1 after overtime...

[Marlow]

I`ll get em next time
previus games he won 5-0, 3-1 and now 2-1 after overtime...

Your getting better, and Pitch Invasions are always hard to recover from.

[FischerKing]

Interesting reading ^^

I will refrain from commenting on the dice of this game, but I have some other comments.

One thing: Dont underestimate the chef in games like this one. Woodelves live by their ability to utilize speed and agility, pull of ultrasafe scores and amazing defensive plays. For that they need re-rolls, especially against a tackle-heavy team! The woodie games were I had the most trouble, were the ones were a master chef took 2 or 3 rr's pr half.
The other option sounds pretty good too though, and with around 500 inducements it might be better.

Another thing: You godda play very carefull in defense, or the woodelves will stall a couple of turns, and leave the chaos dwarfs with 3-5 turns to score in. In that case, the chaos dwarfs cannot play it as slowly and carefully and will most likely make a possitional mistake so they can be sacked.
In your drive, dont spread out with too many players after the setup, as a favorite woodelf strategy is to cut slow teams in half, holding up essential caging players, and then attacking a weakly formed cage with overwhelming force, usin speed and agility. Often in that case, Jumping the cage isnt eaven needed.

That Treeman is pretty overrated, and he might have taken claw instead of tentacles to play some tricks on the mind. People tend to give him undeserved attention, and thus he serves hes purpose. He is far less dangerous to the chaos dwarf team than that mb, piling on, or eaven a normal mb dwarf is to the woodies.

And last, GG. You played better than usual, and Im looking forward to playing you again